by | 14, Dec 2021

Why Real Estate Investing Is Evil

Anthony Vicino and Dan Krueger

Today’s episode is going to be a really emotionally charged episode as we dive in to talk about why real estate investing is evil.

We invest in real estate and We are evil as a result. We are going to unpack what all that means.

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[00:01 – 04:53] Bad Investing Advice: Do What You Do And Never Be Open To Change

[08:04 – 10:10] Investing In Real Estate Is Morally Reprehensible

[17:06 – 20:53] Zero-Sum Game

[20:54 – 25:51} Believing We Have All The Answers

[25:52 – 27:27} Book Recommendation

[27:28 – 31:21} Giving Value Once You’ve Taken Value

Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook

“Just because we drink our Kool-Aid so deeply doesn’t mean that another Kool-Aid isn’t also very cool. Anthony Vicino

“A lot of times people will say things like, well, home and shelter. It’s like a basic human need, and therefore it’s evil to profit off of a basic human need.” – Anthony Vicino

“Real estate or entrepreneurship. I think it’s a game that is a hard period for everybody. But you can get into it if you really, really want to” – Anthony Vicino

“I think people just feel the need to reinforce that they’re doing the right thing more than they’re really concerned about actually doing the right thing.”Dan Krueger

“You have to look at people individually and judge them on their own moral and philosophical beliefs. ” – Dan Krueger

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Anthony Vicino and Dan Krueger
Passive Investing Made Simple – Available NOW!

Why Real Estate Investing Is Evil

Anthony Vicino: [00:00:15] Hello and welcome to multifamily investing made simple, the podcast, it’s all about taking the complexity out of real estate investing. I’m your host Anthony Vecino, joined by Dan Doodles of Mad House on his remarkable.

Dan Krueger: [00:00:28] That’s it. That’s what I do. This is supposed to be for taking notes, and it is all

Anthony Vicino: [00:00:32] That little A-frame

Dan Krueger: [00:00:33] Little pictures of houses and stick figures.

Anthony Vicino: [00:00:36] So what’s the RV on that on that bed, that little bad boy for people that are listening? You can’t see right now, I’m looking at his notebook that he’s sketched a little house on.

Dan Krueger: [00:00:46] I forgot the chimney. As soon as I get the chimney in here, that’s not going to

Anthony Vicino: [00:00:48] Work in Minnesota. We need our chimneys. Gets real cold up here. Smoke coming up. All right. Obligatory witty banter. Complete. Check that off the list. Let’s move on to the meat and potatoes of today’s episode, which guys, it’s going to be a really emotionally charged episode as we dive in to talk about why real estate investing is evil and

Dan Krueger: [00:01:11] Wait a minute. We invest in real estate and

Anthony Vicino: [00:01:13] We are evil as a result. And now I’m going to unpack what all that means. But before I do, let’s get to the bad investing advice of the week and godly look at us. We are just diving right in and getting after it. Here’s my bad investment advice, and usually it’s Dan that gives it today. It’s me. My bad investing advice is to sit. High on your high horse and look at how everybody else is investing and tell them how they’re wrong. And never question whether or not you might be on the right track, whether or not you might be doing something wrong yourself and whether or not there might be a better way, you should do what you do. Never be open to change and never apologize.

Dan Krueger: [00:02:00] It sounds perfect to me. Yes.

Anthony Vicino: [00:02:02] Yes. No. Actually, as I started saying this, I know it sounded kind of like hyperbolic and like, OK, Anthony, you’re going a little laying a little thick. But if you think about it, a lot of us actually do inadvertently fall into this trap where it’s like, Hey, real estate is everything. Listen, real estate, real estate, real estate or crypto, crypto like you know those people like. And it’s so easy sometimes to forget, like, hey, there’s a lot of ways to invest and make money out there. And just because we drink our Kool-Aid so deeply doesn’t mean that another Kool-Aid isn’t also very cool. So it’s a slippery slope.

Dan Krueger: [00:02:37] Hmm. Yeah, I agree. It’s I think it’s easy to get caught up in your own thing, drinking your own Kool-Aid, and just get so in love with the concept of your thing that you kind of forget that a lot of stuff works right? And if you took the time, even just a fraction of the amount of time that you spend on your thing, and start to learn a little bit about this other thing over here, it could be real estate. It could be crypto. It could be. Art doesn’t even have to be investing, it could just be something you’re really passionate about. If you went and took the time to try to understand anything else, you’d probably find yourself getting as hooked on that other thing as you are on the thing you’re hooked on right now. So right, it’s. And I think there’s some ego tied in there, too. I think people just feel the need to. You know, reinforce that they’re doing the right thing, yeah, more than they’re really concerned about actually doing the right thing. They just want to kind of give themselves confirmation.

Anthony Vicino: [00:03:31] Almost as well as humans. One of the deepest seeded urges that we have is the need to be consistent with our internal image of ourselves and our past actions. And we’ll go to really great lengths to justify where we are and why we’re doing what we’re doing just to remain consistent, even if, like when we really stopped to think about it, like we don’t want to be consistent with that worldview that we have of ourselves are investing strategies. And so I think just in general, we need to spend less time judging and condemning in more time learning right and being open to the possibility of being wrong and open to the splendor and wonder of all that this world has to offer. Now I know this, all this is like kind of a melodramatic entry into the episode today, which is that real estate investing is evil. And what we’re doing here is there’s a couple of things at play. One is we’re in, we’re hiring right now or hiring or hiring a lot of people. So if you want a job, come, come. Talk to us. We’re hiring a marketing specialist and we had an interview set up. And then that interview e responded and said, Oh, you know what? I think I’m not morally aligned with you guys because I think real estate investing is evil more or less is what they said. And I thought it was really interesting. And I and in an upset me in the sense that like I think a lot of people believe that real estate investing is evil or just investing, in general, is evil or capitalism or entrepreneurship.

Anthony Vicino: [00:04:54] A lot of the things that I hold dear to be some of the most impactful and important things in the universe. So it’s hard when somebody says, like, Oh, you’re morally reprehensible and I think you’re evil. So I wanted to unpack it and try and look at it from their perspective of like, what is it that makes people think investing in real estate is evil? And let’s have a conversation, Dan, you, and I about why that is and then why we don’t necessarily see it the same way. Not trying to like, say, like, you’re wrong and you’re an idiot, like because you’re entitled to your like, not you’re not the one that said we’re evil, but like, you’re entitled, you’re entitled. This person is entitled to their opinion that what we do is morally reprehensible. That’s OK. Like, I’m not. I’m not going to try and convince you otherwise. But I do think it’s helpful to try and understand their perspective. And then also, if somebody is listening to this, which I don’t know why you’re listening to a real estate podcast if you think we’re evil and reprehensible. So probably this is a skewed crowd that’s listening right now. But if you’re listening to this and you and you hear somebody say like, you’re evil and you probably see this on Facebook, sometimes like landlords are the worst. Like all that, try and understand it from their perspective. Let’s play devil’s advocate for a little bit, unpack it and just have a conversation.

Dan Krueger: [00:06:11] Yeah, I guess without knowing this specific person, my my, my, my brain kind of assumes that I don’t think it’s the case based on what you said about this woman. But my assumption is that most people that have that perspective of landlords being skeezy and evil is because they had some kind of negative experience with a landowner or a landlord. My guess is that there was, you know, one or two negative interactions that they had with somebody in that category, and they have decided to put a blanket statement on that whole category of people in business. I think that’s probably a little bit of what’s going on there. So I don’t know for sure, but I know that there is generally kind of a feeling out there among some people that all landlords are rich and all landlords are greedy and they care more about profits and their money than they do about the well-being of their residents now. I will say that if somebody does have that mindset that they care more about profits and money than the well-being of the residents, then yeah, that’s not a good person might even use the word evil. It’s a strong word, but

Anthony Vicino: [00:07:25] As a strong word,

Dan Krueger: [00:07:25] It’s at least a douchebag, maybe even evil. But that’s not. You can’t just use blanket statements for anything, in my opinion. You can’t just cast a net over an entire industry and say, Oh, this industry is bad because it’s just not the case, right? You have to look at people individually and judge them on their own moral and philosophical beliefs. You can’t just I don’t like blanket statements in general.

Anthony Vicino: [00:07:50] I think I have a general thesis that humans are basically good. Like I operate from a position of abundance and optimism that generally humans are pretty good. And I think the evidence bears this out. The fact that we’re not just murdering each other in the street and stealing and pillaging at will, right? Like we were

Dan Krueger: [00:08:17] Like one hundred and fifty years ago, though,

Anthony Vicino: [00:08:19] We were. But I’m not talking about our ancestors. Those guys are dicks I’m talking about right now. I think generally, though, like in today’s modern society, people are generally good and you can disagree with that. Like, we can’t prove it one way or the other. But I start from that position and give people the benefit of the doubt. Now, if generally, people are good, then I’m going to say that generally, entrepreneurs and generally investors are also good, as the law of big data. There’s going to be some dicks in the crowd, for sure, and they give everybody a really bad name. But I think generally people get into real estate. Yes, because they see a great investment opportunity. They want to make money. But a lot of the people that we talk to, the biggest players there are all about impact in like making a positive influence on their communities. And they have they play really large roles in the city at large and how they can, like, make it positive influence. And so I think generally the dialogue or the narrative that landlords are greedy in just after money. I find it to be an interesting one, and a lot of times people will say things like, well, home and shelter. It’s like a basic human need, and therefore it’s evil to profit off of a basic human need. And it’s interesting because I see that all the time like that argument sells sandwiches. You’re evil. If I sell sandwiches, nobody ever goes to the grocery store and pickets it, and like, you guys are evil for selling apples. How dare you profit like? Nobody goes to the farm and likes pickets. The guy who likes his cornfield like nobody does that. Nobody thinks. And here a case in point is pretty interesting. Nobody looks at the farmer and thinks the farmer is evil. All right. No, I’ve never heard anybody be like farmers are evil and OK.

Dan Krueger: [00:10:01] So and how about like every piece of clothing that this individual is wearing, like is express and

Anthony Vicino: [00:10:07] Well, those were made in sweatshops, so sweatshops. So those are definitely bad. Yeah, but if they were made, if they were made by like a little old lady just down the street and she sewed it for you, that’s OK. You make a profit. She definitely probably made a profit, a profit. And we can get into the conversation of capitalism versus socialism. Sure. But by and large, I find it really interesting how much of a lightning rod real estate investing is for people, in general, to say like, Oh, that’s evil, you shouldn’t. You shouldn’t benefit. But the problem, and here’s the thing is like, what’s the alternative? The alternative is OK. The government takes control, runs all the housing. And how does that usually work out? Not well, not great. Like we, we have a lot of data points.

Dan Krueger: [00:10:53] It’s a lot of examples of that being tried. I can’t say any of them really work well. Just look at the post office versus FedEx at the DMV. It’s just like,

Anthony Vicino: [00:11:03] What do you really want them in charge of your

Dan Krueger: [00:11:05] Housing? Any time you put that kind of responsibility of something into the hands of the government, it just gets done poorly because there’s no incentive to do it well because there’s no competition. It’s in my mind, it’s kind of straightforward and simple. You just look at the post office versus FedEx. You look at the DMV versus there’s really not a private version of that.

Anthony Vicino: [00:11:26] There’s not really. Unfortunately, that’s a monopoly. That’s what happens in a monopoly. Right. And here’s the thing it’s like everybody is like monopolies are bad breakup, Microsoft and all these other places, right? But then we’re OK with like government monopolies

Dan Krueger: [00:11:40] And governments don’t

Anthony Vicino: [00:11:41] Innovate. That’s a bad idea.

Dan Krueger: [00:11:43] Yeah, yeah. So where is the new innovation and creation going to come from? If you take away these things, you get rid of Tesla, you get rid of Amazon, you get rid of Apple, get rid of all the things that people like that make your life easier and better.

Anthony Vicino: [00:11:56] And that’s the thing is like understanding the exchange of value in that equation is that we’re not going into real estate and just trying to extract value because that’s not how the world works, right? Like if you just go and extract, extract, extract and never give reciprocal value, then people will stop doing business with you. They will stop giving you that value. They will move on to someplace elsewhere, you know, water always finds its level. They’ll go to where somebody is extracting, but then also giving because short in a market where there’s not a monopoly, you can always find somebody else. Right? There’s always another potential buyer or seller.

Dan Krueger: [00:12:32] So you gotta do a good job and we’ve

Anthony Vicino: [00:12:33] Got to do good work. So here’s another there was an interesting phrase or way that this person that we interviewed, said that the industry is structured to keep people out of homes. And here’s the thing that really got me the most upset, and I don’t get upset. So that’s like really overselling it. The thing that’s disappointing is I think a lot of people hold the view that the game is rigged. And. I think that the game definitely benefits some versus more than others. For sure, for sure. Your zip code largely dictates your wealth where you were born is going to be the primary factor. I think Tom Billy talks about that all the time. So definitely there’s an aspect of fortune and luck and being in the right place, right time, born to the right family. All that, sure, but generally saying that the system is structured in a way to keep people out of homes or make it difficult. I think you’ve got to be very careful when you adopt a victim mentality in general of saying like, Oh, this is designed to keep me out or keep people out. And I’ve never had that sense with real estate or entrepreneurship. I think it’s a game that is a hard period for everybody. But you can get into it if you really, really want to.

Dan Krueger: [00:13:59] I’d be curious what exactly she meant by that because there’s so much. Uh, there’s so much of a push to get people into it, right, if you look at the way the tax system is structured, the incentives for investors are, excuse me, insane. And that’s because the government wants people to invest in real estate so that right there says that that’s actually a big push in the door. Not not, you know, someone trying to create a barrier to entry. You look at all the subsidized lending programs that are out there that, you know, back in 2006, seven eight actually worked way too well and got way too many people into homes where they couldn’t even afford them. Right. And so there’s all this government assistance to help put people in homes, whether it be to own homes or invest in properties that get rented out to people who just might not want to own a home or can’t afford to own a home, like all of this is one big effort to put people in homes. And so the logic that the system is structured to keep people out of homes is unless I’m missing something very wrong. It seems like there’s kind of a warped perception of what’s actually going on here.

Anthony Vicino: [00:15:11] So I think at the core, there’s just a lot of ignorance and misunderstanding from people about real estate investing or investing in general or entrepreneurship, or about a lot of topics that are really easy to get onto a soapbox and take a strong stance about. Like I always say, be really careful on your high horse because you might fall off and, you know, hurt yourself. And I think we all have to be very careful that we’re not getting onto our high horse, but we have to. I think the way that we avoid that is by really making an effort to keep our feet grounded in facts and understanding and not just hopping on the wave of like the soundbite in the headline that everybody else is saying of like evil real estate is evil and like, it keeps people out and it’s unfair. And it’s in all these things like it’s just shouting without a firm understanding of what actually is at play.

Dan Krueger: [00:16:08] Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, the as we kind of talk about this is this kind of attitude that we got in this message from this individual. It sounds really familiar to like the Occupy Wall Street movement. Yeah. And it was the same kind of issue there where it was this. Misguided perception of, you know, making profits as bad, right? People think that profiting and making money and wealth equates to a lack of morals or bad. But you know, the people that are there who are at these protests and who are making statements like this, they’re covered in capitalism from head to toe. They’re on their iPhones. They’re on Facebook posting these things like if you legitimately believe all these things, then get rid of all those things that came from capitalism and go and try to live your life. Capitalism free. So it’s probably going to suck.

Anthony Vicino: [00:17:06] So here. It’s that Occupy Wall Street is like a perfect example here where I think a lot of people think of the game as being zero-sum. And so profits are bad in a zero-sum game because it means you are taking in. Everybody else’s is losing out. Mm-hmm. And that’s not the game is. It’s an infinite game where both sides can win because let’s think about it like this. If you’re occupying Wall Street and you’re you got the nice north face tent that you’re sleeping in and your little Patagonia sleeping bag and you’re tweeting to everybody on your nice Apple iPhone. Well, Apple is what Steve Jobs, Tim Cook, and Patagonia Yvon Chouinard North Face. I don’t even know who owns that. These people are in the one percent right and they’re profiting, but they’re profiting because they’ve delivered value and you agree that they delivered value. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have bought their tent and their sleeping bag on the phone. Right. And so it’s not zero-sum. And I think so much of the world operates to think that you do well is coming at my expense and that there’s just a limited resource of success and we need to like split it up equally.

Anthony Vicino: [00:18:20] And I think that’s just where we fundamentally diverge as people in how we view and I think most people listening to this will relate. And so I think a lot of this episode isn’t to try and convince anybody on this podcast to change their mind because I don’t think we need to do that. I think it’s more cathartic and letting you know like, Hey, you’re not alone, because sometimes it can feel like that, especially online where it’s I’m not going to. I don’t want to put social justice warriors in a bad light because I don’t want to draw that ire. But it can feel sometimes like the vocal minority is so loud that you feel as though you are the person taking crazy pills and living in an isolation chamber of like, what am I doing wrong here? And I’d say, you’re not alone. Like, I think I actually think the majority of people do see the game as more infinite than they’d see it as zero. It’s not by much, though, it’s not by much. But I do basically believe people are good, so I’m going to lean on that side.

Dan Krueger: [00:19:20] Yeah, I think so. I think I think you hit it on the head with the whole vocal minority thing because what we’ve seen in the last several years is that the way social media functions, in particular, Facebook, is that you get shown things that you engage with more and people typically engage with things more or at least spend more time kind of slowing down your scrolling when you see something that is upsetting or troubling. And so even though the vast majority of people don’t believe this thing, if you engage with that type of content on social media, it’s going to be getting served to you more and more and more. And it’s going to start to look as though the entire world believes this thing. So it’s called an echo chamber basically like you start to just get filtered. A lot of these platforms start to filter out. Everything and just show you the stuff that’s going to really keep you engaged more, which is usually overly dramatic or sensationalized or just false information. And so I think there’s there’s kind of a social media aspect at play here where people are getting some very aggressive opinions about things probably helped by the fact that their social media platforms are serving up this type of content that makes it look like there are a million people that that agree with them. But really, it’s a couple of people or a small minority. Who gets a lot of engagement and that just gets kind of turned into an echo chamber for some people, so they start to develop a, I think, warped sense of reality.

Anthony Vicino: [00:20:54] One of the things that we all need to be on guard for always in our life is that we are not making the mistake of. Believing that we have all the answers, there is a fundamental difference between being righteous and being right. And it’s very easy to be righteous because you don’t have to actually substantiate that with like facts. It’s really just a belief and faith in yourself versus being right, which involves, you know, looking at the situation, trying to be objective, and understanding all the different variables at play. And so the question I have, you know, is what do we do? What do you do when you come across somebody where they think you’re, you just have such morally you have such diametrically opposed opinions and perspectives on how the world is? I think a lot of people get into a shouting match, and that doesn’t help because nobody’s really in a position where they’re going to change their mind. So I guess my question to you, Dan, is What do you do?

Dan Krueger: [00:21:53] Just keep asking questions. Actually, Liz sometimes gets my wife gets a little upset with me because she thinks my questions come off as probing because I’m very typing a and I just feel like I want to like, extract data. And sometimes it can be a bit intense. But get in there. Yeah, when I encounter people, I might default. I typically don’t have a ton to talk about. So what I do is I ask people around me a ton of questions and try to learn about them, especially if they’ve got a viewpoint on something that seems way off from mine. I always want to try to reconcile why that is because if I think I’ve got something figured out in this person over here has a conflicting viewpoint, I want to try to understand reconcile that. So I just ask a bunch of questions and the vast majority of the time, unless they’re just kind of weird and off the rocker, the vast majority of the time. What I find is we’ve got these two seemingly very different viewpoints, but the more questions we ask each other and the more we talk, the more we realize that we’re actually not that far apart and kind of moving towards the middle and be like, Oh, so there’s this little minor difference in what we believe, but at the end of the day, it’s not that big. It’s kind of nuanced, but you got to ask a lot of questions and really dig to kind of figure out, OK, why do you believe this? What’s the logic behind it? Where did that belief come from? Ok, that makes sense. Now they’ve got the context for this belief of yours. But otherwise, from the start of that conversation, it would look as though we’re very far apart.

Anthony Vicino: [00:23:19] But in the thing that points out there is, you’re asking a lot of questions, but you’re coming into it fairly open-minded to have your position may be altered or at least trying to understand because this a very big difference between questioning just to wait your turn and then prove them wrong and like rebut and trying to really understand what’s at the core of their belief. I think you have a lot more patience than I do typically on this type of thing. I come into it more like, Listen, we’re here and here, and I don’t spend a lot of time trying to convince people.

Dan Krueger: [00:23:53] I never try to convince, and I’m not usually trying to understand why they appear so far away. And then usually I figure it out and they’re not that far away. It’s just on a limited amount of data. They appear very far away. But then when you have the full context, you’re like, OK, I kind of get that. I don’t really agree with it, but at least I understand how you got there. And then I’m like, OK, I’m satisfied. We’re just a little bit different. I get your logic. But initially, it’s always like, How the heck can you think this like that makes no sense? And then you kind of come in, you’re like, OK, I got it. We’re friends. I don’t agree.

Anthony Vicino: [00:24:24] But so the weakness with this episode today is that we don’t actually have this person here that we can have a conversation and try, Oh my god, yeah. We try to get to the core of where the differences really appear. And so this episode is really just been us from our side, you know, not bashing, but, you know, trying to defend or present a different, compelling argument. And yeah, and honestly like that that never really helps convince anybody otherwise. And nobody’s ever changed their position because you logically rationalize with them like they want to. You’ve got to appeal to emotions and feelings and all these other Mushir things. So but hopefully this episode, if nothing else, it was helpful for us, just kind of talk through. And maybe it gave you a little bit of some things to think about, too, because you probably if you’re an investor, you’re going to wrestle with this. If you’re a real estate investor, you’re going to get hate for whatever reason, it’s like it’s just one of those industries that it’s easy. It’s there’s it’s open game to hate on in the same way that it’s OK to hate on politicians and lawyers, right? Like it’s just open, it’s an open game or open season. And so you get to either have tough skin or a lot of compassion and a lot of understanding. And hopefully, this episode gave you a little bit of at least camaraderie to be like, Oh God, thank God, I’m not alone. So, Dan. What is?

Dan Krueger: [00:25:52] You’re all of the book correct book almost for. I was so deep into thinking about all that stuff we just talked about, my book recommendation this week is actually one may or may not have recommended it before. I honestly can’t remember. I read it really long time ago, probably at least six or seven years ago, but I’m going to recommend the book knowing full well, that is probably out of date and more so recommending the author than the book. Interesting. Yeah. Ok, so the book at the time, I loved it. It was really important to me from a just kind of understanding marketing and social media from a business perspective. Jab, jab, jab, right hook, jab, jab, jab, Gary Vaynerchuk. And so my recommendation isn’t necessarily jabbed, jab, jab, right hook. It’s a great book at the time. If you go back and read it now, the discussions about social media platforms and all that stuff was were very in the moment, probably not super useful now because stuff changes so quickly. But the fundamental logic behind the book of, you know, effectively just putting out the massive value and not really going in for the quote-unquote sale. The right hook right away, the right hook, it’s like jab is like real value, value, value, value, value and then a right hook. That’s the thing that was really powerful to me early on because I didn’t really have. And that understanding, yet when I was just going from the entrepreneur, from the corporate world, just starting to venture into the entrepreneurial space, even before real estate, I thought I was just going out to try and make sales right.

Dan Krueger: [00:27:28] I was trying to sell a product sale service and I wasn’t really putting out any free value. I thought that was like the secret sauce and like, people need to pay me for this. I read that book and it changed my philosophy. And when I switched that around and just gave everything away for free, basically, just like Gary Vaynerchuk talks about it had a massive impact. I think people really appreciate that, and you get a bunch of people who really kind of hang on your every word because you provide so much value. And then at a certain point, if you do have a thing to sell, it becomes fairly easy. So it’s a great book. You can definitely still get that kind of philosophy out of it. The social media stuff he talks about is probably kind of out of date. But really, I just kind of want to recommend Gary Vaynerchuk. If you’re at all interested in developing a business marketing or just kind of curious about what’s kind of coming next in the world. He’s one of those guys that’s always paying attention to what’s like five steps ahead. And so he’s just a good guy to have on your radar, whether it’s marketing stuff, whether it’s social media stuff or you’re just curious about what those kind of forward-thinking types are looking at. He’s very open about that. He’s thinking, he’s talking about what he’s looking at being the next big thing in five, six, seven years. Put him on your radar. If he’s not there, he probably already is. He’s a pretty good marketer.

Anthony Vicino: [00:28:36] This is actually a really apropos book for today’s topic, which was when we’re talking about profits and just extracting value and not giving value. I think how a lot of people think of entrepreneurship and investing is that I’m just going to go in there and take all the value ha or they’re going to they’re only going to give value once they’ve taken value. So once you’ve given me value, then I’ll give you value. Whereas this is completely different, it’s saying you only ever get the value after you’ve given so jab, jab, jab, give, give, give, give, and then you can extract value. And that’s a lot of what we do with, say, multifamily investing, where it’s like, go in, make improvements to the property. Operational improvements make life better for the residents and then take value, take value, right? Like it’s only after giving, giving, giving that you can then do the taking. And I think that philosophy is fundamental to being a successful human, much less a successful investor or business person.

Dan Krueger: [00:29:28] Yeah, even outside of business, just interpersonally. Yeah, if that’s kind of your philosophy like you’re going to do it right?

Anthony Vicino: [00:29:35] Pretty good. All right. Good book, Rec. I like that one, I think you maybe have recommended that before, but God, we’ve done one hundred and fifty episodes or so.

Dan Krueger: [00:29:42] And one of those guys that like to kind of read a lot of the same stuff over and over again. I don’t I’m not like fucking Ty Lopez, who brags about,

Anthony Vicino: [00:29:50] I read a hundred books behind my Lamborghini. Can you see my books back there behind my Lamborghini? I mean, know I.

Dan Krueger: [00:29:59] I kind of cycle through him. I get like a couple that I read through at the same time, and then I get a couple more, and then I’ll go back to the other couple and read them again. So I don’t have that many of my databases.

Anthony Vicino: [00:30:09] That’s fair. Well, read a couple of books and read them over and over and over. It’s like, read the top one hundred books. Over and over and over. Why read more. Yeah. Ok, so that’s going to do it for us, guys. Hopefully, this episode was, I don’t know, interesting. You probably don’t learn anything about real estate investing. Maybe you just got you. Thank you for stepping into the echo chamber. It’s probably. It’s probably really all this episode was, but hopefully, you got a little bit of value out of it. And if you did, please share this episode with somebody else who you think needs to step into the echo chamber or step out of the echo chamber. I don’t know. Send it to somebody. Sure. Sharing is caring. We appreciate it. Go leave a review over on iTunes and that’s it. That’s all. We appreciate you. We’ll see you next week. Thank you. Goodbye.

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