For today’s episode, we are going to dive into the 10 best real estate investing books.
We’ve read literally a lot of books out there on the subject of real estate investing. These are the 10 best + 1 bonus.
The audible version Passive Investing Made Simple: How to Create Wealth and Passive Income through Apartment Syndications is LIVE!!
[00:01 – 09:47] Bad Investing Advice: Debt Is The Enemy!
[09:48 – 13:51] Book #1: Rich Dad Poor Dad
[13:52 – 16:40] Book #2: The Millionaire Real Estate Investor
[16:41 – 18:31} Book #3: Rich Dad Advisors: ABCs of Real Estate Investing
[18:32 – 20:39} Book #4: Rich Dad Advisors: The Advanced Guide to Real Estate Investing
[20:40 – 22:23} Book #5: The Book on Managing Rental Properties
[22:24 – 26:10} Book #6: What Every Real Estate Investor Needs to Know About Cash Flow
[26:11 – 29:21} Book #7: Rich Dad Advisors: Tax-Free Wealth
[29:22 – 31:02} Book #8: Best Ever Apartment Syndication Book
[31:03 – 32:49} Book #9: Raising Capital for Real Estate
[32:50 – 36:06} Book #10: Passive Investing Made Simple
[36:07 – 39:52] Closing With Book Recommendation
“I really want to drive this home the telling your brain that you can’t do something versus asking your brain, How would I do? This is such a game-changing mindset shift.“ – Anthony Vicino
“Still, like ABC’s is the shallow end of the kiddie pool, and advanced is the deeper side, but it’s the same pool, so it’s going to feel like a lot of the same stuff.” – Anthony Vicino
“It’s always the best way to test your knowledge of something. Just try to teach somebody else.” – Dan Krueger
“The tax piece seemed like it would be the most boring part. In reality, it was one of the most powerful parts and one of the most exciting parts.” – Dan Krueger
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Top 10 Real Estate Investing Books
Top 10 Real Estate Investing Books_processed.mp3
Anthony Vicino: [00:00:15] Hello and welcome to multifamily investing made simple, the podcast, it’s all about taking the complexity out of real estate investing so that you can take action today. I’m your host. Anthony Vecino of Invictus Capital, joined as always by Dan Ger Kruger.
Dan Krueger: [00:00:30] Hope that didn’t make it in there. Probably did, I hope.
Anthony Vicino: [00:00:33] Well, it depends on how we edit these podcasts, but at the very beginning, if you’re listening very closely, you can hear Dan growling in the background like a rabid poodle.
Dan Krueger: [00:00:42] Do you know why, though? No, because my 11 months, almost one-year-old daughter growls, she got it from the dog.
Anthony Vicino: [00:00:49] Is that how she communicates? Oh, God, from Louie? Oh no, I think it’s hilarious. Her first words are growls. Yeah, well, Louie is a very tiny, like two-pound dog who thinks he’s much bigger.
Dan Krueger: [00:01:01] He’s a good four pounds for.
Anthony Vicino: [00:01:03] Let’s give him some credit for the beefy boy he’s put on that winter holiday
Dan Krueger: [00:01:06] Weight that time of year.
Anthony Vicino: [00:01:08] Yeah, I can’t. I can’t blame him. So what are we doing here today, Dan? I know this is a real estate podcast. I suppose we got to talk about real estate.
Dan Krueger: [00:01:16] It’s like something I feel like. It’s been a long time since we’ve done a podcast. For some reason, I don’t know if it’s been more.
Anthony Vicino: [00:01:22] No, it’s been exactly a week we record.
Dan Krueger: [00:01:24] We’ve just been so busy. It seems like a couple
Anthony Vicino: [00:01:26] Of weeks and a lot of deals in the hopper. Yeah, so let’s go ahead and phone it in today. That’s my plan. Yeah, let’s phone it in. Let’s go easy street. Let’s do a topic that I think is going to bring a lot of value for everybody, but it’s not going to require a lot of energy on our part. Perfect. Yes, we can. No. Just kidding, guys. We’re going to bring the power, bring the funk. It’s going to be awesome. But before we do, before we dive into the 10 best real estate investing books. And trust us, guys, we’ve read literally every book out there on the subject of real estate investing. These are the 10 best. Actually, there’s one I didn’t put on this list that I’ve read recently that I would put on the top. Maybe, maybe they’ll we’ll save that for their book recommendation at the very, very, very, very end. It works. Yeah, but before we get there, you know how we do. You know how we do, Dan? What’s bad investing advice?
Dan Krueger: [00:02:19] Bad advice of the week is actually something that we it was probably one of the first or second pieces of bad advice that we offered on this program. And the reason I bring it up again is that it’s it actually came up in a conversation yesterday with the potential investor, and I thought it was kind of an apropos topic just because of what’s going on in the world right now. But the bad investing tip of the week is debt is the enemy. Debt is bad. Good old Dave Ramsey, right? That that that logic that he likes to spew on his show now before anyone gets offended by this. I think Dave Ramsey is a great resource for a certain type of person, somebody who is struggling with consumer debt and does not know how to manage their use of credit cards and things like that. I think that kind of like debt is bad. The logic for that person is a good thing to get them to zero, to get them, get them to break even. But if you’re able to use debt effectively, it’s a very powerful tool. Probably don’t need to tell you guys that you’re listening to a real estate investing podcast. But in case you didn’t know, it is a very powerful tool when used correctly. And the reason this came up on a call the other day as we were talking to somebody who was coming in with what was at 40 years
Anthony Vicino: [00:03:29] Of 40 years. Single-family real estate experience has a long track record.
Dan Krueger: [00:03:33] Yeah, and he’s come in from the medical field, so he’s one of those individuals who’s been, you know, fairly highly paid for his professional life, and he’s been taking that capital and putting it into real estate, and he’s been doing great with it. He’s been buying single-family homes and he’ll hold them for, you know, 10 plus years and really just bank on. The appreciation that happens overtime wasn’t really looking for cash flow or anything like that. Just wanted that, that capital appreciation and he got it. He was doing really good at it, but his strategy was one where he would just buy properties and wouldn’t use any debt. And so he was coming from a time when that whole debt is bad. The logic was it was different back then. The paradigm was completely different. But we were talking about our business model yesterday, and I was kind of explaining to him that, yes, we do use debt, and he made a comment that, you know, that was that was a negative thing, right? Because you’re levered up, you’re paying interest, eats into the profits, and adds risk and all this stuff. And you know, I told him that, you know, based on where we’re at right now, from a macroeconomic perspective, we’ve got inflation trending probably above seven percent and the cost of debt is down in about three percent, depending on who you are and what type of deal you’re doing.
Dan Krueger: [00:04:41] It could be anywhere from 2s up to high 3s, but what that means is that you’re getting paid to take out debt. Now, as long as you don’t go eighty-five, ninety one hundred percent leverage and you get something reasonable like we do, usually seventy-five percent leverage, you’re getting paid to take out that loan because you’re getting, let’s say, a million dollars today that can buy you a million dollars worth of things. And then if the, if you’re buying power, is decreasing by seven percent a year every year for the life of this loan, every year you’re paying back that loan with dollars that are worth seven percent less, right? So in year two, you’re paying back ninety-three cents on the dollar, and year three and so on, so forth. That keeps going, that that payment is fixed, right, which is really powerful in an environment where the dollar is being printed and they’re losing buying power every day. So in my mind, it’s almost silly to not have at least some debt in the equation when you’re getting paid to take it out. But I just thought that was probably apropos, given where we’re at with inflation and the interest rates, and I think people’s still kind of misconception about the whole debt conversation.
Anthony Vicino: [00:05:46] There are so many things here I want to unpack. I don’t even know where to begin, but first I’m going to start with Dave Ramsey. I have an issue with people who espouse investing or business or life advice that they themselves did not follow and or are not currently following. And Dave Ramsey, I think he has good advice for people who are in a very particular place in their life. They don’t know how to manage credit card debt, and consumer debt is a very dangerous thing. But when he talks about like no debt period, I find it really disingenuous considering how he himself lives his life. And, you know, he has debt. So it’s the same with the Grant Cardone thing where it’s like you’ve got to go big and buy a hundred for your first property. And it’s like, No, you got started in single-family homes, dude. Like, Come on, don’t give it people advice that you yourself didn’t follow, like trying to lay it out as though this is the blueprint. If you do what I did, you’re going to succeed. So that’s one thing. That’s one rant. Let’s go to another rant, which is something that people don’t think about very often is that having no debt on a property is in fact dangerous because you are pretty much just having a ticking litigation time bomb because you have all this equity just sitting in an asset that if somebody goes and for whatever reason, they want to come after you and because they slip and fall, they’re like, there are professionals who just go out there and try and target high equity or people who are holding a ton of equity in their properties.
Anthony Vicino: [00:07:16] So you’re. Putting yourself at potential risk there, so let’s not pretend like just paying outright is going to decrease your risk to zero, it’s not. Now, Dan talked about low-interest rates and how you’re pretty much getting paid to take out money. That’s one thing. But he mentioned something that’s super important, which is the optionality of having long terms right now is very, very important because we don’t know exactly what’s going to happen in the next couple of years. And so if we have like a 10-year term, that’s going to give us a lot of time to weather any intermediate storms that might brew up in the next couple of years because then a 10-year window, let’s say you have enough cash right now to go buy a building in cash in 10 years. When the balloon payment comes due, you probably still have access to that capital somewhere if you need to pay off the loan. You could write like there’s always that angle. So as long as you’re maintaining a healthy desk, which is the debt service coverage ratio, I think you’re going to be OK and that’s what the banks are really looking for. Like at one point to one point twenty-five DSR, which means that for every dollar of expense, you’re making at least a dollar 20 or a dollar twenty-five, that means you’re making 20 to twenty-five percent more than the expenses. That leaves you a nice, healthy buffer. Should the property lose value for whatever reason or, you know, something happens with your occupancy and you’re not bringing in just quite as much cash flow, and that’s really the important thing. Buy things with a nice margin of safety.
Dan Krueger: [00:08:37] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cash flow is important. I mean, for us, for that individual I referenced in my story for him didn’t fit into his paradigm. It didn’t matter for him, which is fine. But generally speaking, most of the people who are investing in real estate are looking for the cash flow piece because that’s one of the best features about it, in my opinion, is while you’re waiting for that appreciation while you’re getting the depreciation benefits and while you’re, you know, having that debt paid down by the residents, basically, you get a paycheck on a regular basis, which is fantastic. It’s just like a dividend-paying stock.
Anthony Vicino: [00:09:10] I like a paycheck anyways. Ok, so that’s a good one. We’re going to do another podcast episode coming up this weekend. So you’re listening to this episode go live on a Tuesday and on Saturdays we have our multifamily investing made simple in under ten-minute episodes, and we’re going to be doing one coming up here very shortly where we dive into the difference between good and bad debt. So stay tuned for that. But that’s not the topic of today’s conversation. Today, we’re talking about the 10 best real estate investing books. Dan does not know what’s on my list. He’s trying to glance over right now, but I’m covering it so he can’t see. So this is all new to him. If he doesn’t agree with me, he can tell me so. But I think for 90 percent of these, he’s going to agree
Dan Krueger: [00:09:48] It’s might get
Anthony Vicino: [00:09:48] Heated. Nine out of 10 the number 10 on this list he might disagree with. Probably will. Ok. So let’s dive in. Number one, what kind of list would this be if we didn’t start with the. Legendary purple book Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
Dan Krueger: [00:10:06] Oh, they’re going to say passive investing means simple.
Anthony Vicino: [00:10:08] That’s not purple. It’s white. It’s the mythical white book. Now, maybe it’s maybe that went down the list. We’ll see. Number one, I would say, has to be a rich dad. Poor dad. Not because you’re going to actually get any useful information on how to run a real estate empire. Like, definitely, that book is light on details, very high on fluff, but that fluff? Good God. It’s like marshmallow fluff. It’s not good for you, but I can’t get enough.
Dan Krueger: [00:10:35] Yeah, I feel like it’s kind of a cliche, but that was the first thing that I read when I started going down this rabbit hole and it did. It told me nothing about how to be a real estate
Anthony Vicino: [00:10:45] Investment, but not a darn thing,
Dan Krueger: [00:10:47] Anything actionable. All I got out of it was. Well, I got a couple of things, well, one of the big things I got was there is a portion of that book where he was telling a story about walking down the beach and he saw a piece of property. Or maybe it was vacant land. I can’t remember. It’s been years since I read it, but he saw that and he looked at that, and he said something along the lines of, Oh, I can’t afford that. That’s not something that’s possible for me. And it was, I believe, his rich dad who told him, like, you know, you shouldn’t look at that and say, I can’t do that. You’ve got to replace that statement of Kant with, How can I do that? And that one little mental switch is so important because what happens is without you even trying, your brain is automatically going to try to answer that question and you automatically start to think about resources that you wouldn’t have thought of had you just said those things aren’t an option. Because when you say that your brain doesn’t start to try to find solutions when you pose a question, it does. And that one little shift in the mental framework and the lens you look at the world three, I think is extremely powerful. And then there are a few other things in there about just, you know, the logic behind owning a home as an investment. That’s something that’s been preached by everybody in my life from when I was a child up until adulthood.
Anthony Vicino: [00:12:02] And that’s a really hard belief to break into so many people
Dan Krueger: [00:12:05] So ingrained in our society. It’s just pushed on you so aggressively from all angles, whether it’s government school parents, everybody says that, and then not so much in our country. But I know in other countries, particularly in China, you’re not an established adult. If you’re not a homeowner, if you’re a man in China and you don’t own a home, you’re not going to get married. There is no woman whose parents would allow them to marry somebody who’s not a homeowner, right? I mean, I’m sure this is kind of changed with, you know, more modern mindsets. But generally speaking, if you don’t own a place, if you don’t own a home in that country, you’re not really doing it. You’re not, you’re not. You’re not even getting to first base so well.
Anthony Vicino: [00:12:48] You can even look at the words that we choose to use or like the king of the castle or the landlord. Like, there’s like this element of like power and control and authority and autonomy that comes with owning. And so when you don’t own it. And this is one of the interesting dichotomies between renters and landlords. Inherently, there’s a lot of friction because of this relationship of like power and control. But something you said before, I really want to drive this home the telling your brain that you can’t do something versus asking your brain, How would I do? This is such a game-changing mindset shift. I can’t overstate this. When you tell your brain, I can’t do this, that’s a statement. Your brain’s like cool. I believe you. When you ask the question, How would I do this? Your brain goes, your brain is a problem-solving machine. It loves puzzles and questions when you give your like. Everybody knows this, like when you’re trying to find the song, like the name of the author or whatever, like, it’s on the tip of your tongue. You just you can’t get rid of it just keeps going in your mind over and over and over, and eventually, you’ll get there.
Anthony Vicino: [00:13:52] But if you just tell yourself, Oh, this is who it is when you move on like you’re not thinking about it anymore. And so if you want to be a successful real estate investor, yes, you need to get into the technical know-how of underwriting operations, market research, all that stuff in the books that come are going to dive into that aspect. But first, you got to get the mindset right, which is why I think rich dad, poor dad’s number one on this list. Number two is the millionaire real estate investor by Gary Keller. Now, just to real quick note, these books are not actually in order of importance or in terms of like my even my favorites, I would put rich dad, poor dad number one on my list. I don’t know if I put this book as number two on my list, but I think it’s actually pretty good for both the mindset shift and then also starting to get into the tactical weeds of what to do.
Dan Krueger: [00:14:40] Yeah, I think I remember picking this one up very early in the process for myself, and from what I recall, this was more so focused on single-family, right? Is that accurate?
Anthony Vicino: [00:14:50] No, it was. It was multifamily. Yeah, yeah. But it’s really starting to lay out the numbers of how the investments can work. Which rich dad, poor dad never did like. I think of a millionaire real estate investor as like rich dad, poor dad to point to where it’s like, then next step forward. Ok, now I’m ready to start diving in and seeing some numbers and understanding how they go together so I can like understand what would it look like to become a millionaire real estate investor? Because that’s the thing. Like a lot of people think of like and we’ve done podcasts on this, like, what’s it mean to be a millionaire? And like, that’s a big status thing that so many people are shooting for in their life. So I think a book like this lays it out, like, here’s how you could get there. I think there’s really valuable. It’s not just like the fluff, but it’s actually laying out some systems for what kind of routines, habits, beliefs do you need to incorporate into your daily routine so that you can become a successful investor?
Dan Krueger: [00:15:41] Interesting. I don’t remember this one at all. I was thinking that was one of the early ones I read that was mostly on single-family, and I kind of had feigned interest in it for that reason. But I don’t. I want to say I’ve read this. I don’t remember
Anthony Vicino: [00:15:51] Anything about it. I’ll be honest, I read this one when I first started to. This was many, many, many years ago, so I could be completely wrong. Yeah, the list I’m going with here are books that have stayed with me or I remember having made a very big impact on my personal investing, and I know that they’ve made impacts on other people. So if I’m off on this one, if somebody goes and reads it, they’re like, This is actually about single-family homes. I apologize.
Dan Krueger: [00:16:12] I’m putting every little weight on my recollection of this book because I remember the title.
Anthony Vicino: [00:16:17] We’re getting old, guys.
Dan Krueger: [00:16:18] I remember reading Gary Keller’s stuff. I don’t remember.
Anthony Vicino: [00:16:22] Do you know what’s really crazy, though? This isn’t even Gary Kelly’s best book. Yeah, it’s, you know, the only one that makes it onto this list because there are other ones that aren’t really real estate. But the one thing by Gary Keller and Jay P&P Son,
Dan Krueger: [00:16:32] I recommend that it’s one of the
Anthony Vicino: [00:16:33] Best books, period.
Dan Krueger: [00:16:34] It’s a good gifting book, too, because it’s so small you stick it into a little package.
Anthony Vicino: [00:16:37] I would recommend that one as well. Put that on your list, people. The one
Dan Krueger: [00:16:40] Thing.
Anthony Vicino: [00:16:41] All right. Number three, I know I guarantee you’re going to jump on. This one is the ABCs of real estate investing. Buy the one, the only the man, the myth, the legend. Ken McElroy. What do you think about that?
Dan Krueger: [00:16:51] I love it. I mean, before passive investing made simple came out. That was the go-to book that I would recommend to people who wanted to wrap their heads around the business model. My only hesitation with it was always because it was written more for an operator and for that person who wants to be an active investor. But I got to say it was one of the most or is one of the most comprehensive books on the multifamily business model, which is, you know, I think, still a good resource. Even though it’s written for active investors, there’s a lot of info in there that the general passive investor doesn’t need. It’s really well-written. It’s simple enough that anybody can understand it, and it’s really comprehensive from, you know, it kind of hits all the key topics really does quite as good as ours, but can try.
Anthony Vicino: [00:17:35] Bless his heart. Bless his nippers. He tried. But I mean,
Dan Krueger: [00:17:39] And that guy’s got a massive amount of experience. He’s getting
Anthony Vicino: [00:17:41] Started. It is a good book. It is coming from a guy who has a lot of experience operationally and experientially. So I put this so high on the list because I think he really he really laid the, I think, the benchmark for simply explaining the concept. Whereas I think Robert Kiyosaki, there’s like this quote. Things should be as simple as possible, but no simpler, right? And I think Robert Kiyosaki made things a little too simple on the technical side, whereas I think Ken McElroy really fills in the rest of like, OK, here’s how you really get your mind around what’s actually happening in a real estate transaction.
Dan Krueger: [00:18:18] Well, honestly, I think, you know, Robert Kiyosaki is more of a passive investor. I mean, he gets his exposure through investing in Ken’s deals. So I mean, maybe that’s what you would expect from somebody who’s who realizes that this is a great investment vehicle, but I’m going to do it through Ken. Right?
Anthony Vicino: [00:18:32] Yeah, I do everything through Ken. All right. No, no, no, no, No. Four on this list and this one is a sequel. Or a follow-up book two in the series, this is advanced what is this? The Advanced Guide to Real Estate Investing, also by Ken McElroy. So we got a twofer from Mr. McElroy because I think he’s actually just fantastic at taking concepts and simplifying, and he’s very well, well-considered. So this is the next step up. You’ve done the ABCs, you’ve got the concept. Now you’re ready to dive in, like to the deeper end of the pool. You’re not ready to go out into the ocean yet, but you’re ready to go into the deep end of the pool. This is the pool. I think Ken McElroy, made a great pool in the next books that come up. They’re really throwing you out into the deep dark waters.
Dan Krueger: [00:19:19] Yeah, I remember this one having less of an impact on me. I think it was it was still a good book, but it wasn’t. I didn’t get really, you know, much. Additional value out of it personally than the previous one, I thought the first one, the ABCs of real estate investing pretty much hit it. And then the advanced version was, as you know, is a little bit more, but it wasn’t like enough incremental additional value for me to say, OK, this is. I didn’t recommend the second one to anybody. Yeah, that was always the first one, I guess, is what I’m trying to say.
Anthony Vicino: [00:19:47] I think though, I think if you’re new and you’re looking for books to read, the progression I would do is rich dad, poor dad, probably ABCs of real estate investing, then the advanced guide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re going to get to he’s pointing. If you guys are watching the podcast, no. See, he’s pointing to our book on the bookshelf. That would definitely be the first and only book I’d recommend. Just read our book and you’ll be fine. But I would start with ABC or I’m sorry, rich dad, poor dad, ABC’s and then advanced because it’s just that next step up in the same swimming pool. Like, I think that’s a really good analogy. Still, like ABC’s is the shallow end of the kiddie pool, and advanced is the deeper side, but it’s the same pool, so it’s going to feel like a lot of the same stuff. Yeah, but you’re going to become competent and ready to step out of the pool and go into the deep dark waters, which is where we make the money, and that’s where we actually catch the fish. So there’s no fish in the pool, hopefully. So next up is the first book on the real technical side of How Do You Manage a property? This is the book on managing rental properties by Brandon Turner.
Dan Krueger: [00:20:51] It’s great, it’s really good if you as a passive investor, you may or may not have interest in reading this, I would pass if you are in any way interested. Or if you’re active, definitely read it. I would say this is right up there for all the same reasons. With the ABCs of real estate investing, it’s comprehensive and easy, and I took a bunch of best practices from this one. I got this back when I got my first six-unit and I was doing a lot of the management myself because I had zero experience when I got their first property, and this book was a really great little crash course. It definitely did not teach me everything I needed to know. There’s a lot of local laws and things that you’ve got to wrap your head around, but just from the, you know, general process of like, what are all the things you need to be doing as a landlord manager, right? It’s it was very
Anthony Vicino: [00:21:40] Valuable to me. There are not enough books out there in the world that teach you how to the systematic systems, systematic systems for running a business like there’s just not. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of fluff around like getting the right people on the bus and the right seats. I’m not saying that book is fluffy if you know which one I’m talking about. I’m just saying like that doesn’t necessarily help you figure out exactly where, OK, where do I find the right people? How do I get the bus in the parking lot? Like, how do I get those people through the doors on the bus? And this book the book on managing rental real estate is, I think, really good because it lays out step by step. By the time you’re done with that, you could go and effectively manage a small real estate investment, most likely fairly competently. There’s a lot of
Dan Krueger: [00:22:23] Just that local stuff so that get
Anthony Vicino: [00:22:24] You got to get the local stuff. But from like the operations handbook side, as you could do it, you could figure it out. And I think that book also will give you some insights into what you need to ask from your local legislation perspective of like, what don’t I know about these rules and regulations. So a really good book. Now let’s get into the investing side, which is the numbers we have to know our numbers, right? Preferably so number six in the list. And this is one of my favorite books of all time because it helped me understand more deeply in ways that going into this book, I thought I understood certain return metrics fairly well and I did. But this book took my understanding even deeper in a simple way without making it overwhelming. This book is what every real estate investor needs to know about cash flow by Frank Anneli. And it dives into cash flow, which is, as we talked about earlier, like one of the lifeblood of a healthy real estate investment that includes, like all the return metrics of like cash on cash IRR. What’s it all mean? How does it all fit together? And these are things that if you’re investing in real estate, you’re doing it to make money. So. You should probably understand your numbers.
Dan Krueger: [00:23:39] It’s a big part, it’s a big part, I remember you recommend this to me. A long time ago I purchased the book, I looked at it, I did get the cover and looked at it. I did not sit down and read it all the way through. I’d say partially because I’m just a finance guy. And so my assumption was I wasn’t going to be pulling as much out of it as Anthony was. But what I will say is I looked through the book and I really enjoyed the format that was used where it was very segmented and each metric I had its own little section and wasn’t an overwhelming amount of information, but it was. It appeared to be very digestible where you can use it as a reference manual almost and kind of flip through to, Oh, let’s see what this is, read it through. And kind of I wants to say in like a few paragraphs basically kind of breaks down exactly what the thing is in a very simple way. And so I picked it a couple of I did not sit down and flip through every page
Anthony Vicino: [00:24:26] And then read my recommendations anyways.
Dan Krueger: [00:24:29] I already know all the things.
Anthony Vicino: [00:24:30] The thing with this book is it’s one of the things that came about with passive investing made simple. What was surprising is that we wrote that book for passive investors to understand how to get into passive investments. But it ended up being a fairly good resource for active investors who wanted to have frameworks metaphors for explaining certain types of analogies, like What’s syndication? So one of the things about this book, the that every real estate investor needs to know about cash flow is even if you understand cash on cash and annual average return or internal rate of return if you can’t explain
Dan Krueger: [00:25:06] If, you don’t really know, then
Anthony Vicino: [00:25:07] You don’t really know it, right? And so the book really helps give you some ways of like, here’s how to explain it in a way that maybe makes sense to your investors, or even more so for yourself. So that’s how I thought about it, as I think it’s a very valuable resource on that front.
Dan Krueger: [00:25:21] So it’s always the best way to test your knowledge of something. Just try to teach somebody else. And if you can’t do it, you suckered some gaps.
Anthony Vicino: [00:25:26] Try try harder
Dan Krueger: [00:25:28] Over. You suck than saying, hey.
Anthony Vicino: [00:25:31] So one of the athletes that I trained our climbing gym back when she was, she was very, very young. She went on to become an Olympic athlete. She has a tattoo on her leg that says, You suck. Try harder. I like it. Yeah, so you suck. Try harder. That’s OK. That’s a good thing. It’s motivating anyway. Tangent? Ok. Book number seven. Now we’re going to get even more into the weeds. These get ever, ever more complicated and esoteric, but this one’s super important. One of the biggest reasons for investing in real estate is where the tax benefits, so we need to understand how to maximize and leverage these. This is tax-free. Wealth by Tom Wheeler, right?
Dan Krueger: [00:26:11] It’s a good one, I will say what I picked up the I guess when I started reading and learning about this, this asset class in general, the tax piece seemed like it would be the most boring part. Hmm. In reality, it was one of the most powerful parts and one of the most exciting parts. Even way before that piece even really mattered for me. I know for a lot of people who invest in real estate, it’s one of the main reasons. But Tom Wheelwright, he’s in the same kind of group, the same club as Robert Kiyosaki and Ken McElroy. They’re all part of the rich dad,
Anthony Vicino: [00:26:43] Poor dad community. Yeah, they’re all under that publishing house.
Dan Krueger: [00:26:46] Yeah. And so I don’t know what they’ve got going on over there if it’s the editors or publishers or what, but all these guys are able to take complex and typically boring in the case of the tax thing. Take some of these topics that typically are not that consumable and make them really enjoyable and easy to read. And Tom’s book is there’s no exception, and that’s saying something for a book on tax. It’s actually enjoyable because it’s just written in a way that gets to the point. You can understand it and it’s actionable. It gives. Can a lot of that immediately apply to your situation? Talk to your CPA and say, OK, here’s how I want to approach these things.
Anthony Vicino: [00:27:24] So and that’s the interesting bit, right? Yesterday, we sat down with some investors and they were talking about the fact that they need a good real estate CPA because the problem with their current CPA is one they don’t focus on real estate, and number two, they don’t know what questions to ask of them, right? Like, I just don’t even know where to start, and you can’t just go to Google and be like, what questions? I ask my CPA like it might come up with some stuff, but this book is really helpful not to make you a professional, not to make you an expert, but to help get your wheels turning and give you the questions to ask your CPA so that they can help guide you. Because most CPAs, what we have discovered from working with a fair number of CPAs is that they’re not the most creative bunch and they’re not always the most outgoing bunch. They are just going to do your taxes, get you your standard deduction and move on. And so unless you can stop them in their tracks and start asking the questions about, OK, how are we maximizing the efficiency of my investments and my income? What can we do? And you know, those guided questions, you’re probably leaving some money on the table? Almost definitely.
Dan Krueger: [00:28:25] And you know what’s interesting about what happened yesterday with the individuals we were talking with, and I think this is probably applicable for a lot of people, is they didn’t have a CPA per se, in the same sense of the word that we use it. They had somebody who filed their taxes every year. They didn’t have somebody who was advising them on their tax strategies. Now that is a CPA that does that advising, and that’s a CPA that files the taxes. But for a lot of people, if you ask them if they have a CPA, they have a guy that files their taxes once a year and there are no strategy components. There’s no ongoing advisory element where they’re, you know, answering questions throughout the year and helping you make decisions in a tax-efficient way. It’s just here’s my W-2 file, my tax return, and that’s it. So that even though that individual might technically be a CPA, what you really need is a CPA who can provide tax strategy and strategy. Yeah, that’s important if you’re going to be getting into these types of investments.
Anthony Vicino: [00:29:22] Absolutely. I mean, don’t get into these investments unless you can maximize what you’re getting out of it, right? Like, don’t leave money on the table. Yeah, it’s low-hanging fruit. I mean, in its tasty fruit. All right. Book number eight. We’re getting ever, ever more specific. This book is going to be very, very good for wannabe active investors. And it would also be a fairly interesting read for a passive investor who wants to understand maybe things from an active investor’s perspective. This is the best-ever apartment syndication book by Joe Fairless. This is, to me, the gold standard for books on apartment syndications. It’s really good. Like there’s a lot of books on apartment syndications, but this is the most, I think, thorough, authoritative, comprehensive, and yet simple, understandable, accessible. It’s just really good on how to actually syndicate an apartment building.
Dan Krueger: [00:30:12] Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think what kind of separates this book from all the others that we’ve mentioned is everything else we talked about is just investing in real estate in general. Right. This is going a step beyond and saying, OK. The syndication business model, what is that structure, and how does that work? It’s not really going to talk about the management piece, it’s not going to talk about finding good deals. It’s really explaining in-depth how syndication actually works, how all the pieces fit together, and all the different ways you can pull different levers to create some kind of structure that’s going to be equitable for everybody. I think that’s really what this book is going to give you. It’s not going to teach you how to invest in real estate or find good deals. It’s going to teach you how to effectively structure these kinds of deals once you’ve got the deal when you want to actually structure the ownership and the profit splits and all that kind of stuff, that’s what this book really does.
Anthony Vicino: [00:31:03] Absolutely. It’s a structure. Book a partnership, book understanding how the partnership it’s big, but it’s accessible like it’s a quick read and it’s really good. Like I got to say like Joe really knocked it out of the park on that one like Joe. Well done. Like, you didn’t just write a book like a lot of people write there. Like I wrote a book on real estate investing. You read it and it’s like, OK, they just talk very broadly about investing so that they could have the book, right? This was like a pretty good deep dive. The next book on the list is even more esoteric, and it’s not going to apply to everybody that’s listening to this. But it’s another one of those books that is just like Joe’s not just a book, but it was like a really well-done deep dive into a very particular sub-niche of investing and that is raising capital for real estate by Hunter Thompson. Great book if you want to raise capital, whether that’s a joint venture or syndication, probably syndication. But either way, if you want to raise capital and partner with other people to take down deals, this is the book you’ve got to read. Understanding how do you talk to investors? How do you put yourself in front of them? From a marketing perspective, now, if you’re a passive investor, I would probably just skip over this book. I don’t think it’s going to be super beneficial for you generally. But if you’re an active investor who wants access to more capital through private investors, this is the book you got to read.
Dan Krueger: [00:32:20] Yeah, I mean, I will say that the principles he talks about in the book are going to be applicable to any industry and any business venture. So if you ever need to go out and capitalize something with this real estate deal or your own venture of some completely unrelated nature, it’s the same kind of fundamental process of being able to properly present an opportunity and knowing how to communicate with people and share that opportunity so that they are interested in investing. So I’d say it’s it could be applicable for just about anybody. That’s true.
Anthony Vicino: [00:32:50] It’s called raising capital for real estate, but you could substitute that for raising capital for a startup. And raising capital is a skill that never goes out of style. Regardless of what the reason is that you’re raising capital, it’s a good skill to have. All right. So number 10 on the list in this one, OK, you got me. It’s a little biased, but it is. In fact, passive investing is made simple. Oh shucks, we made the list
Dan Krueger: [00:33:13] All the way at the bottom. This was from
Anthony Vicino: [00:33:15] Worst to best. No, it wasn’t. It was best. Save the best for last. Okay. Yeah. Ok, so here’s the thing guys and gals that are listening to this at home when you make the top ten list. You can put your own stuff on there, so I don’t want to get any hate mail saying like that book doesn’t deserve to be on the top 10. I don’t care. It’s my top 10.
Dan Krueger: [00:33:37] It was Amazon reviews would disagree. I think the people, people have spoken, they’re coming
Anthony Vicino: [00:33:41] In pretty strong. Yeah. So, so OK. So passive investing is made simple. If you haven’t listened to the podcast before and you have no idea what that is, that’s a book that we wrote. That’s all about passive investing in apartment syndications. If you’re interested and to our knowledge, there’s only like three books on the topic ours and two others. The problem with the other one or the others is that it’s like drinking from a fire hose. It is a fantastic book, but it’s just a little bit too much, a little too deep for most passive investors. And so with passive investing made simple, we just tried this. We tried to cut out all the fluff so, so to speak. If Joe Fairless was here and just get down to what is it that you as a passive investor need to know in order to profitably, confidently invest in commercial real estate?
Dan Krueger: [00:34:26] And none of that fluffy stuff. Fluffy stuff. Yeah, someone actually made a meme out of a book.
Anthony Vicino: [00:34:32] They did. Yeah, they did.
Dan Krueger: [00:34:33] It’s an image of a fire hose with one of the other books and then just a nice, comfortable little drinking fountain,
Anthony Vicino: [00:34:38] Little drinking fountain. We’re like drinking out of a water fountain. It’s nice and refreshing. It’s what you need. And that’s the thing is that most investors that are getting into passive investments, they this is the part that a lot of active investors miss. And if you’re listening to this and you’re trying to raise capital from people, pay special attention here. Most passive investors do not dream about real estate. They don’t it doesn’t dominate their worldview in the same way that it does for you. You are excited about multifamily and you’re talking about it with everybody all the time. People are like, Can you talk about anything else? Your average investor does not care. They know real estate’s powerful. They know they want to invest in it. They don’t want to do any of the work. And they don’t. They don’t really want to do a ton of homework. And so don’t give them resources that are going to require them to spend days and weeks and months of their time getting up to speed. A book like this in the podcast that we’re doing right now, like the goal, is really to try and make this as accessible as possible for people who are just dabbling. They want to invest, but they don’t want it to take up their life. Anyways, well said, end of rant and rent here. Anyhoo, those are our top 10 real estate investing books. We got rich dad, poor dad, we got millionaire real estate investor. We got ABCs of Real Estate Investing, the advanced guide to Real Estate Investing. The book on Managing Property Rental Property. What every real estate investor needs to know about cash flow. Tax-free wealth. The best ever apartment syndication book raising capital for real estate and passive investing made simple.
Dan Krueger: [00:36:07] There’s a bonus coming right. You said you had a bonus for the people.
Anthony Vicino: [00:36:10] I Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Ok, so let’s seamlessly transition the show now into our book recommendation of the week, which might seem weird considering we just gave you 10 book recommendations.
Dan Krueger: [00:36:20] We don’t recommend any of those books, by the way. They’re great. Not recommended. But this one,
Anthony Vicino: [00:36:24] This one’s recommended. But good golly, Miss Molly, I can’t remember exactly the wording of it. It’s a textbook. It’s called real estate finance and investments, and it’s by Lindeman and Bruce Kirsch. I can’t remember the lineman’s first name in this book. Ok, so listen, guys, if these books were going in order of like, overly simple to like, overly complex and then end it obviously with, you know, one of the most simple books out there, passive investing made simple. This book, this textbook of real estate finance and investments. It is a really deep dive into financial modeling and real estate investment. It’s a textbook. So if you’re looking for a master’s class or even like the Ph.D. course, this is the book for you. And this is the book that I’m reading right now because I think you can never rest on your laurels thinking that you know everything that there is to know about your domain. I think there’s always more to learn. There’s always more room for growth. And so this is the book that I’m currently leaning on to help me sharpen my sword. So if you’re an advanced real estate investor and you’re like, I need to continue honing my skills, this is a great book for that.
Dan Krueger: [00:37:31] Yeah, yeah, I don’t have this that you mentioned to me, and from what I gather from it, it’s legitimately a textbook and it’s not something you just, you know, kick back in the couch and page through. You sit down and you study it.
Anthony Vicino: [00:37:42] There’s homework, there’s homework involved, there’s an Excel spreadsheet that goes along with it. I think this is what they teach at Wharton. It is a deep book. It’s like three hundred bucks like textbooks are ridiculous. I don’t know why they’re so expensive.
Dan Krueger: [00:37:54] Textbook price.
Anthony Vicino: [00:37:55] It’s textbook prices because but it’s really good. And I’m not saying this is books for everybody and I’m not saying, everybody. Anybody should really go out and get it. But what I do want to put this out there is that regardless of where you are in your journey, there’s always room for improvement. So ask yourself, what do you need to do to go to that next level? And if you’re like, Dan, over here and you’re saying, you know what? I’m the financial wizard, I don’t need to get any better. Well.
Dan Krueger: [00:38:18] Just give it time, if I get too good, if I get too good, might actually blow up in our face.
Anthony Vicino: [00:38:23] That’s fair. I don’t think you can ever be too good. I’m just gonna put that out there. But so anyway, that is today’s episode. We phoned it in, I hope hopefully you guys enjoyed it.
Dan Krueger: [00:38:35] I was blacked out for most of
Anthony Vicino: [00:38:37] This, I wasn’t even where am I? Who? Who am I? I’ve been drinking a monster energy drink over here, so I’m pretty much on cloud nine at the moment.
Dan Krueger: [00:38:44] He’s been awake for four days.
Anthony Vicino: [00:38:46] I’m very sleepy.
Dan Krueger: [00:38:47] Help me bingeing his textbook.
Anthony Vicino: [00:38:49] I just can’t get enough. What a weird obsession. Anyways, that’s going to do it for us, guys. We appreciate you and your gals. I’m sorry to all our lady listeners out there. We appreciate you for joining us, supporting us, taking a little time out of your day. If you know somebody who would get any value out of listening to this podcast, please do us a favor and just shuffle it over to them. Just share, but share it with them. Sharing is caring and that’s all.
Dan Krueger: [00:39:18] I got anything. I got nothing. All right, so let’s go.
Anthony Vicino: [00:39:21] Let’s go ahead and do it awkwardly right now.