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by | 19, Apr 2022

2 Years of Multifamily Investing Advice!

2 years ago, on this day, Dan and Anthony set out to simplify Multifamily Investing!

But, they didn’t start out in a studio with fancy cameras and mics. This podcast has changed in many ways! If you go back and watch or listen to the first couple of episodes… you notice one of the first changes we implemented was better sound quality! Because nothing turns people away from a podcast faster than bad audio!

But the format of the show has changed too! Segments have been added and dropped, guests have come and gone, and we now have 4 episodes released each week! Plus, we live-stream the podcast recording sessions on most Fridays (for those who just can’t wait for the next episode to drop!).

In this episode, Dan and Anthony look back on the past 2 years and dive into how the podcast started and how it’s transformed into what it is today. Plus a little peek at what’s to come in the future!

Join us as we celebrate the 2-year anniversary of Multifamily Investing Made Simple.

Tweetable Quotes:

I remember is when we first sat down to do the first podcast, it was super awkward because we didn’t know how to talk to each other and also the audience.” – Anthony Vicino

“That’s one of the quickest ways to get rid of people, they might see bad video, but bad audio, man, that’ll screw you.”  – Dan Krueger

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To learn more, visit us at https://invictusmultifamily.com/

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five rules of investing

The Five Rules of Investing

** Transcripts

2 Years of MIMS

[00:00:00] Dan: hello. Welcome

[00:00:14] Anthony: to my family. Invest me. This is the podcast. That’s all about taking the complexity out of real estate investing so that you take action today. I’m your host, Anthony Pacino. Evan, because capital point is always by Dan, my correspondent in the field Kroger. I don’t do that to him

[00:00:30] Dan: and do good.

Anthony, how are you? How are things? So this is NPR episodes. I wasn’t told that this episode isn’t PR

[00:00:35] Anthony: coming live to you from, uh, our studio in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Dan.

[00:00:42] Dan: Oh, where are you calling in from today? I can’t do this much. NPR. No. I mean, we have to really like whisper. You got it. Yeah. It’s just funny for us.

It sucks for you. It’s so bad for you, but listen, listen, listen, listen.

[00:00:55] Anthony: This is if our math is generally correct and it’s by [00:01:00] no means let’s not assume it is. Um, this is our two year anniversary of when we launched the podcast alleged. So we are drunk on our own fumes or in a little tequila. Great guys. Do you have any idea how hard it is to make it two years?

Uh, in the podcast industry it’s difficult and when we started, well, let’s put a pause on that. We’re going to come back and we’re going to tell you the full story, the full journey. We’re going to take you on a magnificent mind.

[00:01:33] Dan: Escapade. It’s a psychological thriller is what it

[00:01:35] Anthony: is. Kind of plotting the journey.

What got us here. Um, To NPR status. So, but before we do that, let’s, let’s give, let’s give people a little bit of, um, grounding in like what they’ve come to expect from us. Let’s give them some bad investing advice.

[00:01:53] Dan: Yes.

[00:01:55] Anthony: Let’s give them what they can. Let’s give the people what they

[00:01:56] Dan: expect from us for poor [00:02:00] guidance and misdirection.

Let’s give it to him. Bad jokes. Hey, jokes are pretty bad, pretty bad. All right. So I got too cute. I’ve got to figure out which one I wanted to do here. I

[00:02:13] Anthony: want to flip a coin. No. Do you want me to, hold on, let me,

[00:02:15] Dan: let me give you a little insight. One of them is a little bit more focused for the entrepreneurs who might be investing in their own business.

And the other ones is pretty much in the same line with most of the stuff we do, which is pretty investment

[00:02:28] Anthony: go entrepreneur.

[00:02:28] Dan: Alright, good choice. Let’s do it. All right. Keep your expenses low. And run a lean operation. Now this, like I said, it’s more so for the entrepreneurs, the business owners, we’ve got a lot of those in our, our network, our, our, our community.

Uh, I think a lot of the people that, uh, align with us on stuff we talk about are, are business owners and entrepreneurs. So this one’s kind of targeted at you guys and you’ll see how it’s an investing advice. And a moment when I kind of unpack it a little bit, but keep your expenses low and run a lean operation.

That [00:03:00] sounds good, right? Yeah. Kind of what we’ve tried to do from day one. We don’t want to just manage money. Yeah,

[00:03:06] Anthony: man. It’s expenses. Yeah. A dollar saved is worth more than a dollar

[00:03:09] Dan: precisely. Yup. Um, so that’s, that sounds great. Right. But the thing that I wanted to kind of unpack with this one was that a lot of times for a young business and an entrepreneur or a self-employed individual, they’re so used to running lean operation because they have to early on and the.

The, the perceived cost of bringing on someone to the team to help out whether it’s an employee or a partner or something is really a dramatic, well, it’s not traumatic. It’s really obvious. Right? You could see a dollar sign. If you need an assistant, you know, they’re going to be X amount of dollars per year.

And that’s you look at that as a big cost, big expense, and it’s intimidating because you’re taking on a liability. But the thing that is tricky is that there is a, a sneaky cost, a sneaky expense. The sneaky cost that [00:04:00] isn’t quite as obvious. And that’s the cost of doing the thing poorly because you brought on a team member too late, right.

And that is, is tougher to quantify. And it’s very easily missed because you might be trying to avoid taking on the responsibility of a $70,000 a year salary, but you also might be costing yourself, uh, a lot of money that you don’t really see because you’re doing the thing poorly because you wait too long to bring on the healthy.

So my investing tip of the week is to run a lean operation, but also. Try to quantify what the cost of not having enough operational support is. And, uh, that should help the story when it comes time to actually pull the trigger and start to grow your team. What do you think? Yeah,

[00:04:41] Anthony: I think there, I’ve always talked about the fact that there’s two times to hire you, either hire.

Or you hire too late. And the two sooner, there’s never a perfect time to hire. Like you never nail it on the nose. You’ll never do it. When, when you, when you hire too soon, it costs you money. When you hire too late, it costs you opportunity and [00:05:00] opportunity is a hard thing to quantify. And a lot of times, like when you’re first starting out, maybe you truly don’t have any money that you could actually bring somebody in.

Like, maybe you’re just so lean and you have to do everything yourself. Okay. But what ends up happening is when you, as you grow a company, Even in your life, when you come from a complete lack or being poor or not having any money and having to bootstrap everything, you can start to develop these tendencies of hoarding and of feeling like you never have enough to then be able to go and invest into the growth.

Right. And that mindset can really do a lot of damage. You can stick with you and you get rewarded for

[00:05:35] Dan: that on the front end. That’s the trick in front of. That serves you well,

[00:05:39] Anthony: but then on the backend, if you stay on that long enough, it’s going to burn you out because you’re not going to bring in the team or the resources that you need to really scale.

And maybe you, maybe you start to make that jump it, like I’ve, I’ve done this before. Um, Dan, we’re doing it right now. Um, but it’s still hard. It’s still hard to do like the mental jujitsu of, is it, [00:06:00] is it now the time to invest in this infrastructure thing or bring on this new person? We were having a coaching call earlier this week with, um, with our business coach Brent.

And he’s like, Hey, how, how much time are you guys spending on $25 an hour tasks? And we’re like, uh, Good question. And it’s a good question because we know we shouldn’t be spending any time on $25 an hour tasks. If we can do it for $25 an hour, we should hire somebody to do it because the tasks that we can do that are much higher value or tasks that only we can do.

And so that’s where our time and energy should be going. But it’s really helpful when the coach points that out. And so that’s, I think why we’re pointing it out to you guys listening to this. It’s like, if you’re in this situation right now,

[00:06:40] Dan: It’s sneaky, sneaky. So I call the sneaky expense cause it like becomes slowly creeps its way in and it’s very subtle.

So if you’re not paying attention, you’ll probably get, just blow right past that point and, uh, start to see your, your end product, whatever it is that you do start to deteriorate. And that could be the unwinding. If you’re not careful. [00:07:00]

[00:07:01] Anthony: One of the one really good piece of advice that I would give is when you’re looking at hiring first look at what are the, the lowest value tasks that you’re doing, that you can get off your plate.

And so instead of going and hiring like that, that really, really, really super, super duper high level person, like instead of going hiring, like the CFO, like start with the bookkeeper, right? Who can take the 20, $25 an hour tasks off of your plate, which allows you then to focus on more of the CFO activities instead of folk.

And I think there’s competing theories on that. Go and hire the best person that you can possibly get early on. I’m not one of those people. I think you got to clean off your calendar. First of those low level tasks. And those people are usually easier to come by. And there’s

[00:07:40] Dan: so many different nuances with respect to who it is.

We’re talking about what their business is, what the role is, what the department is. So yeah, there’s definitely gonna be an argument for, uh, someone at some point to go get the CFO before the book. Um, but I’d say that the, the inverse of that probably more likely the more efficient route. [00:08:00] So,

[00:08:01] Anthony: so Dan, do you remember two years ago on this day when we launched, multi-family investing made simple.

It’s actually wasn’t on this day. Yeah. It’s going to say, was it,

[00:08:10] Dan: it started earlier. When did we start counting us when we recorded it when it,

[00:08:14] Anthony: so this is the cheer anniversary of the podcast being launched officially and people being able to see it. But in fact, A little known story is that Dan and I, um, we, we took a crack at podcasting before none of those episodes saw the light of day, not a single one because they still could, they might still come out there

[00:08:33] Dan: on the cutting room floor.

I got them up and shove them out there.

[00:08:37] Anthony: Do you remember walk me through what you remember of the very first podcast episode? I think it would be fun. It’s like to take us through the evolution from where we started to where we are now. And I think generally when people look at where we’re at right now with the podcast, people generally go, wow, that’s really cool.

Like the first comment everybody was like, you guys have really good sound quality. The videos are awesome. The room that you guys are in is really, really cool, but it didn’t [00:09:00] start here.

[00:09:01] Dan: Start here. We, none of those things now I’m trying to remember on that first up. So did we do that with the intent of that being the first episode of the podcast multi-family investment.

Yeah. Did we do it as kind of like this weird transitory piece of content that was,

[00:09:17] Anthony: we haven’t named the podcast. I know that much as for certain, we were, at that point, we were starting to co-create video content for YouTube. And this was like a really long form one that we knew we wanted to launch a podcast, but we at.

Well, one of the things I remember is when we first sat down to do the first podcast, it was super awkward because we didn’t know how to talk to each other and also the audience. Do

[00:09:41] Dan: you remember that? Yeah, I think I want to say we pretty much just talked to each other and I don’t even know if he really acknowledged the camera

[00:09:48] Anthony: or the first one.

Definitely not.

[00:09:49] Dan: Yeah. We just kind of interviewed each other. I think

[00:09:52] Anthony: we get our origin. We did our origins. We went into the corner. You were, we were sitting at your. We are sipping whiskey. And I had, I [00:10:00] had this long tripod, really long, skinny tripod, really silly. It was like, it’s super thin and really sketchy that you could put your phone on top of it.

And I made it really, really tall and I stacked it on a book and top of. So that it could be eye level with us. And then you recorded it into these lav mics, which are these like these little clip on, and then we’re going to take it and take the mix and add them together for whatever reason, the mic audio didn’t work.

So we only had the audio from the phone and it’s as bad angle, just us talking and drinking with.

[00:10:33] Dan: Yeah. And if you’d come across this video on YouTube, you would have clicked out so fast. I mean, just, I mean, that’s one of the quickest things that gets rid of people’s one, they’re going to see the bad video, which is.

Bad enough, but the bad audio, man, that’ll screw you. As far as just making an enjoyable experience for the viewer slash listener. If the audio is bad, it’s almost like not watchable or,

[00:10:56] Anthony: or more, more so than the video. Audio is bad cookout so [00:11:00] quickly. But what I remember from that, it was okay, you got to start somewhere and that’s about as humble of a place as you can start.

And then over the next couple of weeks, we’re like, okay, that’s not good. Let’s try again. And we kept trying again and again and again, in different ways and different setup. Sitting and staring at the camera and then at a table, like we went through a bunch of iterations and I remember it being really still awkward because at the beginning we would talk as though it was like a pitch.

Like we were on a sales pitch of like, this is why you should invest in, in multifamily real estate. And we get done and we listen back to it and watch it and were like, I don’t, that’s not, that’s not what we’re going for. Yeah,

[00:11:42] Dan: it’s weird. When you try to do this kind of thing, like you watch content, you listen to content and so you think, you know what you want to do, and then you go and try to execute that and it comes up weird, right?

Because I think it’s, we were trying to do what we thought we should be doing, which was. Uh, enjoyable to us. That’s, we’re [00:12:00] trying to force ourselves into this format that just wasn’t a good fit for us. And so we kind of found our groove that, that fit with our personalities. And then all of a sudden, just the organic enjoyment that we were having doing it because we were doing what we liked resonate with the audience.

That’s where I think we actually got some traction. We actually started having fun and stopped trying to fit ourselves into a mold that just wasn’t really appropriate. Just did whatever we thought was fun. People people started to dig it. Yeah. I’ve got some cool cameras and, well, that’s actually

[00:12:25] Anthony: really interesting.

Cause I think when we first started before multifamily investing officially launched, like we finally figured out like how we wanted to approach it and start and talk. But before that it was very much like we were doing these podcast episodes as though it was the sales pitch and that this podcast was going to be the avenue for investors to be like, oh, I want to invest with these guys.

And so we need to sell. And it was like, once we realized, no, we don’t want to do a podcast like that. Like, and hopefully you listeners at home never get the sense that we’re sitting here just trying to sell you on something. Yeah. Because [00:13:00] that’s not really the intention of the podcast, like a downstream consequences if we’re doing this well, and we’re educational and entertaining is that you guys will like us.

And if you resonate then sure. Maybe we can do business. But we really shifted the focus. We got really intentional and said, okay, the goal who we’re speaking to are passive investors, but the goal is not to convince the listener that’s on the other side of this, that they should invest with us. It’s let’s provide them with good educational, entertaining content.

And we’ll just see where it goes and we’ll just do it long enough and, you know, have fun with it. Yeah. And there’s

[00:13:31] Dan: a lot of guys out there that, that do the pitch thing. Right. That’s their thing. That’s what they do. They’re really good at it. And it resonates with what their audience and their viewers, because it’s.

To them. I’m like, it makes sense for them. So like grant Cardone and like all those types that that’s the style they have and it’s, it’s genuinely who they are. So it comes across well, when we tried, it just felt weird and awkward. And he said, really, we just, I think we got really clear on who it was that was actually, uh, listening and watching.[00:14:00]

Once we kind of figure out who those people are or the, you know, the avatar of the type of person, then we can kind of reverse engineer. Okay. W what are these people who are listening to viewing this actually want to hear? They don’t want to hear a pitch. They want to hear, like, how does this work? What is this like that, that’s

[00:14:15] Anthony: kind of what we landed on.

Yeah. And, and when we first start. Um, we, we were doing interviews. We were doing one episode per week. It was released on Tuesday. It was a long form episode again, because that’s what everyone else, because that’s what everybody was doing. And it made a lot of sense. If you think about it, like, oh, you bring on these guests, it makes content creation really easy.

Cause now we just need to have a conversation with this person. And then we get access to their network because obviously they’re going to push this episode out to their people. And then that never actually happened. So we did, we probably did like 50 or 60 interview. And after, after a certain point, we kind of got tired of it because a couple of things, one, we started to realize bringing on guests onto the podcast is not actually a very good way of growing the podcast.

Surprisingly, I know it sounds counterintuitive, but, [00:15:00] um, it wasn’t. And then too, we found that the PA the conversations weren’t always very enjoyable because people come in with their canned wrote stories over and over in the interview that we would get with. Was pretty much the same, uh, same interview that they would give a hundred different times on a hundred different podcasts.

That’s a

[00:15:20] Dan: decent number of really good ones. Some are really good, but the majority were kind of just,

[00:15:26] Anthony: yeah. And the thing that we realized is this is our fault. This is our shortcoming. We’re not good enough interviewers, but as we audited, like, we don’t want to be really good interviewers. I wasn’t, that’s not really our goal.

And so we started going away from the interview episodes around the same time that we started introducing. Another episode every week, which was the under 10 minute episode. And that’s, that’s when we realized like, wow, people, really one, you guys, um, you guys really seem to enjoy the under 10 minute episodes.

I don’t know if you can only take about 10 minutes of us before. You’re like, I’ve had enough [00:16:00] if you’re just busy people and you want to get the information quickly. Um, but what we started to realize was the episodes where they’re short and, or it’s just me and Dan without an interview guide. Vastly outperformed the interview episodes, which was really interesting.

Yeah. Well, I think it,

[00:16:15] Dan: it makes perfect sense once we got kind of clear.

[00:16:21] Anthony: So we’re still alive recording.

Oh, no, but we’re still alive. Um, so what do we want

[00:16:32] Dan: to do? A little live is getting good audio. All right. So. Alright,

[00:16:38] Anthony: can we do it? You can. Perfect. All right. Let’s run with that.

[00:16:43] Dan: Um, Hey, live yours. Look at that little. What

[00:16:46] Anthony: happened? Something things go wrong constantly of weed, and he’s keeping this on the track.

They probably couldn’t hear what that was, but it sounds like our hard drive that is recording too, is maybe going on the phots, um, gremlins. So usually that means [00:17:00] we have to reset the system. From wherever we left off or wherever it cut out. But it sounds like we’re just going to pull the audio from the live version and we’ll keep running.

So that’s, that’s what we call failing our way to success in real time. Yeah.

[00:17:11] Dan: There’s another little benefit to the live is it’s like a little insurance policy, right. There you go. Uh, w w

[00:17:18] Anthony: what are we, um, the 10 minute episodes and people tuning in specifically for

[00:17:22] Dan: us, I was thinking that, um, a factor there is that.

Since everyone, at least a large part of our audience is drawn to us for educational reasons. Um, You know, it, it, it makes a lot of sense that someone has a particular question. They go and they find a list of a podcasts that kind of hit on that and they go for something that’s 10 minutes. Cause if it’s one concept they’re looking for, do you want to listen to a whole 45 minute episode where the piece of information you want is maybe like 15 minutes, 10 minutes?

Or do you just want, here’s a 10 minute explanation of that. One thing you’re looking for. Boom. I think it’s just easy. Cause that’s what I use YouTube for personally [00:18:00] is it’s a search engine, Google for things I’m trying to learn about. And I go for something that’s, you know, 10 minutes is good. It’s like, there’s enough info here to satisfy my question.

And it’s not too long, two minutes. I’m like how much could there really

[00:18:12] Anthony: be? But even, even the long form episodes where it was just you and I were outperforming the interviews by a, by a lot. And that, that was really interesting to me because to get guests on the podcast is a lot of work, right. And actually coordinating everybody is, is, is a pain in the butt.

And during this time, like we, we didn’t have the podcast studio. We were still recording. You are recording from your office. I was recording from my home office and. Um, it just became much easier to not do interviews. And I’m curious if you’re listening to this and you’re like, I actually do miss the interviews.

I wish guys would do those more often. Let us know that. Go actually go leave a review or a comment somewhere and let us know if you missed the interviews and we can make conscious effort to bring those back. We’re just trying to be more selective when we bring on guests. If it’s on a topic we brought on Ryan Zico recently.

Crypto and blockchain type [00:19:00] technologies. We brought on our good local buddies, Johnny Nelson and Mack Benson, because they had really crazy cool story to share. Um, but we’re just trying to be more selective saying like, uh, either, well, we have Jeff to Jeff. We have, I think it’s just, I think one Jeff is coming.

We have one of our investors, Jeff, he’s coming on in a couple of weeks and that’s going to be really, really fun. That’s gonna be fire. Um, but all this to say is around this time, then that we moved into our offices. So this was about a whole year, a year and a half. Yeah. It was like July. We moved in. Yeah, we’re right around 70 episodes probably.

And then we built out this, this podcast studio because, um, I think it’s all about like the perf, like the pursuit of incremental improvement and we’re, we’re looking and saying, well, what’s the next step. Okay. Better audio, better video video. Just trying to figure out what are the hurdles that keep somebody from being able to engage with financial or investing content?

Because sometimes this is really true. I think when we’re talking about cash on cash returns and preferred returns, it’s not super exciting. [00:20:00] So we try to be intentional about, okay, well let’s not let the video or the audio quality be the reason that somebody tunes out and let’s not let, let’s try not to be dry and let’s try and be, you know, our quirky, unique selves and not try to just pretend to be purely professional all the time.

Yeah.

[00:20:17] Dan: Yeah. I think that that’s probably one of the biggest pieces is just trying to just be, um, ourselves and not try to endure. Other people who are doing this thing, we’re just come on and do our thing. Hey, that’s a hell of a lot easier try. Um, I don’t have to wear shoes. That’s great. Yeah. He’s barely.

Yeah. As long as you just keep it at the shoes, everything it’s

[00:20:38] Anthony: coming, baby. I’m just coming, coming up and bust out the Jean shorts, Jean shorts

[00:20:43] Dan: shorts. Is that her mosey thing? I’ve noticed he wears a lot. He wears a lot of

[00:20:46] Anthony: jeans. Shorts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:49] Dan: You guys. Um, but yeah, I forgot where I was going to go with that train of thought.

I got

[00:20:54] Anthony: to quality as

[00:20:55] Dan: being ourselves. Oh yeah. And then I think obviously this helps quite a bit. And then I [00:21:00] think the next iteration is going to be something where we go back to a little bit. Structure right now. We’re kind of sitting at a bar right now. Yeah. I always

[00:21:08] Anthony: hated that. We sit next to each other.

This just happens to be the room’s too small. Yeah, it’s

[00:21:12] Dan: a, it’s a small little room. So the next iteration I think, is going to be something a little bit more like the Joe Rogan type of setup, where you’re kind of sitting across from each other. You’ve got a couple of angles that you have on the side and going on,

[00:21:22] Anthony: we can have a conversation with each other just right now.

We just have a conversation that way. It’s a little bit weird at times. But we’d like to be able to change the orientation, putting on a guest and have them have a conversation over here with us in life. We would like to get to the point. I think that’s the world I want to get to with interviewing, bring people live, bring them into the students.

Whole

[00:21:40] Dan: different, different game. Yeah. It’s w it’s always almost, if you get a good person, it’s, it’s very rare that it ends up being dry. Uh, weird if you’re in person together, it’s when you’re doing it over zoom that I think it’s just especially

[00:21:53] Anthony: kind of like, and can control for audio quality and other other variables.

But, um, so the studio went [00:22:00] in and then here we are in the last couple of months, we’ve been going through some iterations to, and trying out some new concepts. Um, thanks to reiterate Jamie now. Um, Jamie. Oh, my girlfriend’s name is Jamie, so I’m very confused, Joe. Rogan’s Jamie. Yeah. So we got, we have read, uh, running the.

Well, we call that the sound engineer, the video engineer, he’s doing everything. So we’ve been experimenting and trying new concepts here in the last couple of months. You might’ve seen that. So we, we really, we started releasing a bonus episode every week on Fridays, which has just repurposed. From a weekly video that Dan or myself specifically do for YouTube.

So we might be talking about like, what’s a preferred return or why is real estate risky? And so it’s not purely just a podcast, it’s like pure education. Um, and then starting, I think it was this week. Yeah, it was this week that the first one went live. We, we introduced a book review at, uh, episode on Wednesdays, which is [00:23:00] really fun.

Those are gonna be a lot of fun. Actually. We’ve got a couple in the camp. But those are just our us taking books that are really meaningful to us. And then sharing 10 takeaways, because we know you guys are busy people out there. You probably like educating and learning and reading, but maybe don’t have enough time to get to all the books.

So maybe we can come press some of our learnings and share it with you. So you get the gist of it

[00:23:20] Dan: from us.

[00:23:22] Anthony: Yeah. I’m curious. I’m curious though, like where are we going now?

[00:23:26] Dan: Ah, what’s next Lars. Aren’t

[00:23:29] Anthony: it’s got to go to the Elon.

[00:23:30] Dan: He’s going to do a podcast

[00:23:32] Anthony: from ours. We’ll start in two weeks ago, we started going live.

Yeah, just constantly like you guys can see, like we’re trying to constantly challenge ourselves to do new uncomfortable thing, going live by the way. Super uncomfortable, super uncomfortable, because

[00:23:45] Dan: I just don’t even, I forget. Clearly I was sitting here talking about my Boba tea. Is that what this is?

Boba Boba tea. Um, yeah, I think what, w what would be cool next is to do some more kind of like stuff out [00:24:00] in the field. If we had some kind of like mobile type of operation, where we could, uh, do an episode from, uh, an event that we’re at, um, or do something from, uh, a property, uh,

[00:24:11] Anthony: just like out in the field.

So you’re saying we should start doing my events for the podcasts where we do a live recording, where everybody can. Like my brother and my brother and me, they have these big events and they fill up stadiums. Do you think we could fill up a stadium? Absolutely. Okay. That’s more confidence. And I would have had

[00:24:31] Dan: say like

[00:24:32] Anthony: big small stadium.

So this, this is another opportunity to get the, you, the listener involved in terms of, you know, where we go with the podcast and how we continue growing over the next year, two years. And what would you like to. Do you have certain types of content that you enjoy more than others, certain bits, like are we getting to the end of the, the bad investing advice?

We warned that bit thin. Is it time to, to, you know, pull out something new? Would you guys like to see other [00:25:00] new, uh, new engaging content? Like let us know, um, in the comments, go leave a review, all of those things. So. Anything, anything else? I’m two year on the two and this had nothing to do with real estate, by the way,

[00:25:13] Dan: real estate.

That’s fine. That’s fine.

[00:25:15] Anthony: But it did have something to do with building a business in terms of marketing and putting yourself out there and putting out content. I think that’s the best way to grow a following, to grow your customer base, regardless of what kind of business it is. And so if you’re, if you’re out there thinking like what’s the economic value of a podcast, ’cause I get this question a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot people see like our podcast set up now and they’re like, Hey, what’s the ROI on that?

Like, has it been worth it? Has the podcast been worth it for you guys? And how long, how long did it take for it to become worth it? And that’s a really hard question to answer, because if you’re looking at it from a pure economic ROI, like how many investors come into our funnel because of the podcast.

Hard to say, like we measure it, but it’s hard to say like truly is at the place that they came in [00:26:00] or did they get some experience somewhere else?

[00:26:02] Dan: Yeah. I think it’s a product of like all of the resources we have the podcast, the book, us, our experience, like all that stuff combined. Um, so it’s really tough to pinpoint.

Okay. What’s the podcast. Portion of that. It’s

[00:26:17] Anthony: really tough, but I would say a hundred percent it’s been worth it. Yeah.

[00:26:20] Dan: A hundred percent. Yeah. I would say I was talking to, um, a friend of mine recently was in the process of building out a, uh, studio, um, uh, where he works at he’s at a mall of America and they’re building out a podcast studio and they’re going to be launching, I think, in July or something, but something that he, uh, said to me, It’s kind of interesting because we, we’ve kind of talked about how we did our first couple of episodes and then they never saw the light of day.

We did those with the intent of actually using them. And then they just turned out so poorly that we’re like, we are embarrassed to share this with anybody. Um, but his plan from the get go is to build it out and spend a month, or maybe it was like two, three weeks. I forgot how long it was, but a good period of time recording episodes that are strictly.[00:27:00]

Test runs. There’s no intention of ever releasing them. So I’d say for people like to build that in, like, we kinda went in thinking we were going to get some material out of those first few recordings and it was good practice run, but it was kind of disappointing. Cause we’re like, oh man, they’re not good enough yet.

It’s kind of a defeating feeling. But if you go in with a plan of, okay, we’re going to do 10 episodes and they’re all going to stink. That’s okay. Like that’s the. The 11th episode is actually the real one we’re going to plan on releasing. And that’s probably a better way than

[00:27:29] Anthony: no. What’s really, really interesting too, is when we launched the podcast, we did not launch very well.

Like we, we did not come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. I see people they’ll launch their podcast and then they’ll share their, their, their download results. And they’re like, oh, we had 10,000 downloads this month. I’m like, really? And the first six months, I think it took us six months to collectively across all the podcasts across all of the months to get to like a thousand downloads.

It took, we had slow growth. And I [00:28:00] think if you were to look at it over the first year, a lot of people would have stopped. Cause they’d have been like, we’re not getting enough downloads this isn’t worth it. But what I tell everybody is if you’re going to do a podcast, you have to commit to doing it for at least two years.

And then you look back and judge, has it been worth it we’re coming in. I I’ve Al I’ve known since the beginning, that’s going to be worth it. So I haven’t been holding ourselves to that, but here we are at two years,

[00:28:23] Dan: it’s been worth it. I think part of that also comes from like what the expectations were that we, uh, put on ourselves.

Like we came into this with the intent of creating a, a database of resources that we could point people towards. Um, Going forward. So basically it was, it was basically supposed to be a resource for investors before we had the book. Uh, we wanted to have something that we could point to, to say, okay, you’re kind of into this real estate thing.

We’ve been chatting a little bit. That’s all great. Uh, here’s like five or six episodes of our podcasts that are extremely applicable to the stuff that you’re curious about. And so we wanted it to be [00:29:00] an ancillary resource for people getting up to speed. We didn’t start this with the intent of creating this big.

Uh, media machine with a ton of views, and then we’re going to monetize and start to generate revenue from, we were just trying to build up a database of resources for our investors. And that, that was our only goal, really. I mean, obviously we went on to grow it, but that was the primary goal. And so for that reason, it wasn’t really focused on the numbers at first.

It’s obviously you want to see that there, but like regardless of how many people were actually watching, downloading, streaming, whatever, um, we still had that resource that we intended to create for any investors that came through our pipeline, which is. You know, if that’s all it ever did for us. It’s that’s fine.

Honestly. So that’s got a lot to

[00:29:40] Anthony: do with the tooth. Yeah. So if you’re, if you’re new, if you’re launching a podcast or if you have launched it, and you’re just not seeing the growth that you wanted to yet just like recalibrate your expectations, set the tr like we said, almost all of our podcasts is like set the time horizon longer, a long enough time horizon.

If you just show up diligently and consistently, like it’s going to work out on eventually. [00:30:00] So just be patient. It lets your really bad. Well, I mean, you do need to, you need to audit and you need to be, you need to be honest with yourself and be like, is the reason people aren’t listening because this is bad.

Well that’s okay. That gives you room to improve, like focus on like last year, Dan and I was it last year, the year before I think it was last year, we worked a lot on public speaking. Like we dropped, we dropped a lot of money to go and be like practice and have people tell us how bad we are at speaking.

So. I don’t expect to get better at something if you’re not prepared to put in the work and the time and the energy to get better at the thing. And podcasting is just like that. And the same way, like interviewing is a skill that we didn’t want to get better at. So we just cut those up. Yeah. So

[00:30:43] Dan: I’m not trying to be a journalist.

There’s a lot of people out there who are really great at that.

[00:30:46] Anthony: Yeah, exactly. It goes, go do the thing that sparks your soul with joy. That’s my thing. All right. So here’s, here’s your book review or a book recommendation. I just read this last week. It’s so good. It’s super interesting. And then that flies in the face.

I think a lot of people hear it [00:31:00] initially and they go, wait, what it’s called the alter ego effect by. Todd Herman is this high, a peak performance mindset coach. Who’s worked with tons of Olympic athletes and high level CEOs. And helping them get the best performance out of themselves at any given moment.

They, he utilizes this thing called the alter-ego, which doesn’t sound new and regulatory, but it’s creating this avatar or this alter ego that you show up at. Just in Kobe Bryant. So this is exactly what Coby Bryant did. Black Mamba is his alter ego. And when you start thinking, when you start like getting down to like all these really high end athletes and high end, like people performers, they, a lot of them, Oprah had one.

Beyonce had one, a good Jordan, Michael Jordan, they, all, these people have an alter ego that they think of when they step on the court and their field of play. They physically go through this transformation of like, I’m this person in this. They, I embody these [00:32:00] skills. This is what, this is my strengths.

These are my weaknesses. They step into this new persona when they need to perform at their peak. And it’s really interesting because I actually, I actually have an alter ego that I step into in different sports. And I, I hadn’t really thought about it when it comes to like public speaking or it’s a business alter ego, um, for, for jiu-jitsu it’s Achilles, Achilles, right?

So in fighting. So I used to, I grew up doing combat sports, doing a lot of martial arts and fighting MMA, um, which is something maybe a lot of people don’t know. Um, my, my alter ego is Brad Pitt from Achilles the fight club. Well, I also like him from bike club, but the, the reason, the things that he embodies to me is that he’s beautifully effortless, but ultimately.

Right. And so when you, when you, when you enter that mindset of like, I’m going to be beautifully effortless and ultimately lethal, like that’s, that’s, [00:33:00] that’s what I embody when I go into combat sports. That’s what I try to. Yeah. But so that’s the book alter ego. I think it was like in that movie. He’s pretty awesome.

He was pretty good. So there’s some really good fight scenes in that movie. I love choreographed fight scenes, but this book alter ego effect by Todd Herman. It could be very valuable for a lot of people, regardless if there’s an area of your life, even if that’s in your personal. Like one of the examples he uses in here is these, some people have a really hard time stepping back into their families and turning off like the business or the performer or the athlete, and then stepping in like, what’s it look like to be the ideal dad?

Like, what’s it mean to be a five-star dad or a five-star husband. Um, and he talks about like how you can, how you can help manifest that. And it’s not like pretending to be something that you’re not, it’s just acknowledging. These are the traits. That I have inside of me that I want to embody. And that’s what the book helps you bring up.

[00:33:54] Dan: I think mine is going to be Larry David.

[00:33:57] Anthony: I just tried JV and I tried to [00:34:00] listen to curb your enthusiasm. We watched the first episode, and then we watched the first episode. I made it less than five minutes in and I was like, I can’t do this. Okay.

[00:34:09] Dan: So the first season’s tough because it was like pre HD.

When that came.

[00:34:13] Anthony: I don’t care about the quality of the video. Very weird and awkward and slow. And I was like, what is this weird and

[00:34:20] Dan: awkward. I mean, that’s what it’s all about. I just felt like,

[00:34:22] Anthony: I just felt like it was an old man walking from room to room. Like where are my socks? Yep. When I put my socks, I’m like, I need to watch this in 10 years.

That’s going to be me.

[00:34:34] Dan: I love

[00:34:34] Anthony: it. Do it for us. Um, any, anything else there? Uh, old Daniel, Larry David curtain.

[00:34:42] Dan: I mean, yeah. Okay. So two years closing remarks on the two year, um, I mean, I feel like we’ve progressed. Um, have we gotten better? I don’t know about better. We’ve progressed

[00:34:55] Anthony: in a direction we’ve gone a direction.

[00:34:58] Dan: We we’re doing something [00:35:00] different than we were doing on day one, whether it’s better or worse, that’s up for you to

[00:35:03] Anthony: decide I’m still enjoying it. So I consider that a level of success. Yeah.

[00:35:07] Dan: Yeah. I mean, I’m excited about, um, taking it to the next level. I’m excited when we, for, when we upgrade our studio to Joe Rogan status, uh, a.

I don’t know what that’s going to look like when it’s going to happen, but I’m just excited to improve and keep the, um, coming up with new and creative things to do. Um, like I’m really enjoying these, these new episodes with the book, deep dive and, um, all that stuff. So really excited. So if you guys have any feedback on cool ideas for content that you want to see could be anything, anything real estate non-real estate, just throw it out there.

Just brain dump. Into the comments. Um, we’d love some feedback, but those are my closing remarks. Yep. I was like, we’re not done yet

[00:35:53] Anthony: two years in. We’re not done yet this Walmart and that’ll do it for us. If you’ve enjoyed any part of this journey over the last two years, then Joe, go drop a [00:36:00] review.

Subscribe, share this with a friend and we’ll see you in the next,

[00:36:04] Dan: over the next two years.

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