by | 25, May 2022

Guest Episode: Rock Star Reasons To Be A Limited Partner

In today’s episode, we have a real rock star of a guest joining us… we really mean it! When he’s not rocking out real estate deals, he’s rocking out in a band! We’ve known Jeff Gebhard for a couple of years now, and he’s an all-around bad-ass! We can’t hype this man up enough!

Well, Jeff is joining us today because something we said in a previous episode really got him fired up, so we brought him on the podcast to duke it out. We put out an episode listing some of the worst reasons to become a limited partner on a deal, and Jeff argues that some of those were the exact reasons he actually decided to become an LP!

We love different perspectives and Jeff always brings great insight. So… what are some rock star reasons to be a limited partner?

Find out on this week’s episode of Multifamily Investing Made Simple.

Tweetable Quotes:

“The knowledge you acquire yourself outside of school on your own time is far more valuable than anything you’ll learn in school.” – Anthony Vicino

“If somebody is really trying to learn how to be a good operator, a well-rounded good operator, they’re not really going to get a ton being on the LP side.” – Dan Krueger

“You don’t learn how to ride a bike by reading a book.” – Jeff Gebhard

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five rules of investing

The Five Rules of Investing

** Transcripts

[00:00:00] Anthony: hello and welcome to multifamily investing made simple the podcast. It’s all about taking the complexity out of real estate investing. So they. Yes, you can take action today. I’m your host, Anthony Pacino joined by Dan action. Jackson, cruder.

[00:00:28] Dan: I don’t know. Where am I right now? And where are you for those of you who actually watched the show?

We are where people are

[00:00:34] Anthony: convenience. Throwback. Yeah, throwback episode. We are back in our roots, our humble origins. I’m back in my home office. You’re back in your closet. Uh, it really truly isn’t it’s really is a closet if anybody’s ever wondered. So.

[00:00:50] Dan: So

[00:00:50] Anthony: Dan, I don’t want to beat around the Bush too much today.

I don’t want a banter. Um, I just want to get to it. I want to, we have a really cool guest with us. Um, I actually don’t have his bio [00:01:00] or anything like that here. I’m just gonna, I’m just going to talk about our guest today. Jeff gov heart is an all-round. Bad-ass, he’s a guy that I’ve known for a couple of years.

Now I look up to, I respect immensely because, um, he’s just one of those guys who’s done a lot. He like a lot. He’s got his fingers in all sorts of things and you would never really know it unless you get like, you really start prying. And he’s not a guy that just like, I don’t know, it’s throwing all those accolades in your face.

And he doesn’t like case in point earlier, this like just a couple of days ago, he sends me a text and he’s like, look at this new thing that we put up and it’s a power tower. Like this guy is like running amusements, the centers and stuff. It’s crazy. Anyways, we had an episode a couple of weeks ago. We said some said some pretty controversial things.

We said, this is the absolute worst reason to become a limited partner and to passively invest in a deal. And we, we, if you haven’t listened to that, so people, you should go listen to it. I think it was. It was triggering and Jeff has triggered [00:02:00] Jeff reached out and he’s like, I’m triggered now. No, no, he actually, he made some really good points, um, that I was like, dude, we have to have you on the podcast.

We have to have you on the podcast to talk this through because well, it’s great. Jeff can get out here, man, and introduce yourself, tell everybody who you are. Um, and then let’s, let’s get to it because. I think you’re a wealth of knowledge, man. I like truly like your, your perspectives on things I think are like top-notch so I’m

[00:02:26] Jeff: excited for this.

Uh, thanks. You’re way, way, way too kind. So, and I, I appreciate you talking to me up way more than I deserve, so I’m really happy to be here. I’m a big fan of you guys and big fan of your show and, and. I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you on this. I’m a contrary and a little bit. So when, uh, and that means, uh, as my friend say, I like to argue, but when I heard your, your podcast regarding, uh, the worst things about B what you should, the worst reasons.

To be an LP [00:03:00] where the exact reasons why I started to become an LP. So then I get my Dukes up and say, let’s roll it. But, um, I agree, but I disagree with, with, with what you guys were saying to me, we get more into that, I guess, but anyway,

[00:03:14] Anthony: quickly to like, see the, see, one of the things I learned about Jeff though, is.

He just talked for like a minute there and didn’t mention the fact that he’s a rockstar like Jeff, like Jeff plays in a bad guys. Um, Like literally plays on

[00:03:33] Jeff: my hand.

[00:03:35] Anthony: I’m like, how does this guy not just lead with that? Like, I’m Jeff, I’m a rockstar. I’ll

[00:03:39] Jeff: run back. Yeah. My daughter says, that’s all you talk about.

Dad has been in a band, you know, I don’t tell anybody we played Footloose. I mean, we’re not, we’re not Aerosmith or anything. Okay.

[00:03:53] Anthony: So in that episode, um, let’s for people that haven’t listened to the podcast, that particular. Dan, [00:04:00] can you recap really real quick?

[00:04:04] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:04:04] Dan: So the title of the episode was the worst reason to be a limited partner in a deal.

And this was coming from our experience with a lot of different investors, kind of coming through our, our network. And we have conversations with everybody obviously. And it’s been, uh, Infrequent, um, that we’ve had people come through, uh, our, our sphere and say that the initial reason that they became a limited partner on a syndication was so that they could learn how to be an operator more or less and run their own certifications.

And, and so we took the angle of. That’s something that some operators might pitch as, as a benefit to being an LP. But if somebody is really trying to learn how to be a good operator, a well-rounded good operator, they’re not really going to get a ton being on the LP side. And so there’s more effective way.

Uh, to really get that experience, either just doing a smaller deal on your own or doing a [00:05:00] small to medium-sized deal with a partner. And so we looked at it through a fairly narrow lens and Jeff, uh, looked at it through a little bit different, a little bit different perspective, which, which we thought made a lot of sense.

Hence what we’re doing right now.

[00:05:12] Anthony: Yep. And one caveat before we start here and we get into the weeds and we only stuff on us is that when, when I was originally formulating the idea of like the worst reason to be a passive investor and it’s in a syndication, I actually. I actually think all of the things that we’re about to talk about here are like really good reasons to become a T to go be an LP and learn the ropes can be very valuable.

I think the thing that I really rebel against is there are certain partners or GPS or active investors out there who will pitch new investors. Hey, you should be an LP in my deal. So that you can learn the ropes and then maybe in the future we can partner together. And I think that’s the worst reason is when a GP is trying to tell you, like, just [00:06:00] put some money into my deal and I’ll teach you the ropes.

Like, I, it, it almost always feels like they’re just trying to get my money. Like, so that’s, that’s my caveat, but now let’s get into like truly why being an LP is actually pretty smart. If you want to learn. Yeah.

[00:06:18] Jeff: Yeah. So when, when we started looking at, at doing syndications we’ve, we’re our own operators, we, we all, we always owned and operated our own properties.

We never took on partners. One of the things. I wanted to learn was the syndication gig, where you have partners and then you also have investors. We’ve never had that before. So I don’t disagree with, if you’re getting into the real estate game, you need to understand how to be an operator because that’s much different than being an investor.

And frankly, there’s GPS. That has never operated either, but they’re hiring management companies. They hire it out. Uh, so we were looking [00:07:00] at syndications and looking at well, how does. Partner, you know, and how D how does all this stuff work? And I don’t know if you want me to get much into that, but, you know, bottom line is what do they see?

You don’t learn how to ride a bike by reading a book. And so you have to get in at some point. And, and I think it’s a bigger discussion on how one needs to go about learning and. You shouldn’t expect to get spoonfed, and you’re going to teach this, teach this, you can learn a ton, but it’s not the GPS job to teach you.

It’s your job to go out and actively figure it out. What you’re weak in, what areas need you need to know and learn from them. And I can go through, I wrote a list of. Specifics that, that I think one can learn by being an LP, but there’s something more that I learned the most after we’re going on our eighth LP now, uh, in the last two years, I think, or a year and a half, I actually think, uh, one of your deals was our second deal.

We ever did. So, [00:08:00] um, yeah. And then we, we ended up again, so we’re in, we’re ready to do another one, but yeah, so there’s, there’s lots of things I think we can get into it. And you want me to, just to dive right in or where do you want?

[00:08:11] Anthony: Yeah, but one second, let’s pause one second. Because the thing that I think is important here is that as Jeff alluded to.

You are not new to real estate, right? Like you weren’t like fresh off the boat, jumping into a syndication. And that was your first experience. You had a long track record of, you know, different types of real estate, single families. And I think he had some industrial stuff if I remember correctly.

[00:08:36] Jeff: Yes.


[00:08:37] Anthony: And so you had some experience and you were in particular joining the syndication because. You wanted to learn how that works like this new variable, but it wasn’t like completely brand new. And, and I find that interesting. Yeah. I think that’s a


[00:08:52] Dan: part. Is that your, it depends on what you’re trying to learn.

I think is really what it’s going to come down here. Cause we kind of went into that episode with the perception of [00:09:00] here’s what this theoretical person is trying to learn. Um, but Jeff’s coming in from a different perspective. He’s run properties. He gets that. He’s trying to learn some other specific things, which I think he’s about to dive into here, which I think are a good example.

Good things that can be gleaned doesn’t LP, not how to, how to go out and buy a property and run it. But some of the other things. So I’m curious to dive into this list of yours. Jeff, what have you got when you got

[00:09:23] Jeff: identified? Yeah. So when, when we looked at deals on our, by ourselves, I didn’t have to present it to anybody.

I didn’t have to. It’s a napkin thing. You know, we, we’ve done more deal deals over a napkin and beers than, than underwriting and Excel spreadsheets. So you have to, I wanted to learn how syndicators did their underwriting and we had our own underwriting, but it wasn’t as detailed as what I’ve learned from how you guys do it.

And, and other guys that we’ve invested with. And so you get to see how. Present their underwriting, which is basically there. [00:10:00] It’s the data of them telling you this is a good deal. And that’s what I want, because I don’t want to hear their BS on why they think it’s a good deal. I want the data. And then, then that breeds coming into the next thing is how did they do their due diligence?

We’ve sat through presentations before and I’m listening to their due diligence. And they’re telling me all just anecdotal things, you know, Amazon came in, I got an aunt that moved there. Well, a great show me the data. What’s the data showing of this area that you’re looking at. And I’ve learned a ton by never even asking a question, just listening to how they’re analyzing data.

And you guys know there’s guys in our industry that are just rock stars. Due diligence data freaks in, in, in the, in different areas. And that’s that’s, to me, I just love that kind of stuff. Uh, yeah. Um, the other thing is how did they present the deal to investors? So, you know, It’s [00:11:00] my business partner, Jeff foreigner, and I, and we just have to talk the other guy into it, you know?

And so sometimes, sometimes it’s just a matter of more beer. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and, uh, he can drink a lot more than I can, so he gets me before me. So anyway, so yeah, that’s, that’s how I want to hear it. How you talk to investors? I mean, because let’s be honest, you’re not talking to people to a 25 year old kid.

For the most part, you’re talking to people, that’s got the capital to be able to put into the deal. And so usually those people have made some decent choices in life to be in a position to be able to invest, but they don’t understand real estate. So how do you talk to them? How do you sell them on that?

Is it. What I’m learning is there’s different conversations depending on the investor. Right. And so is that invest, you got this deep pocket guy that’s just really interested in not paying taxes and getting some [00:12:00] depreciation, or do you have somebody that wants to have a little cash flow going? It’s quite a different conversation.

Yeah. And something else

[00:12:07] Dan: that we notice on our side is there’s the. You know, there’s the, the tax benefit guy, there’s the cashflow guy. And then there’s the guy who just wants to make as much money long-term as possible and get their big equity pop. And the cashflow and taxes are not an issue. In addition to that, we’ve also noticed there’s guys like you, that just, they want the data and those other guys out there that want more of a story.

They want more of the anecdotal stuff. They don’t more data would actually be a off for them. So a lot of that stuff I think is, is a good thing to glean as an LP because that’s. That you’re not going to really find that anywhere else other than doing it. Uh, or if you kind of experience the investor side first, I think that’s a really great way to say.

I actually regret not doing that. Um, we had to figure this out while presenting to investors, in fact could go back. I would have experienced the investors seek first, the [00:13:00] LPC first, so that I had better, a better understanding of what, uh, someone’s sitting on that side of the table wants to hear, or doesn’t want to hear.

[00:13:09] Anthony: What was really interesting. Jeff was when, when you first texted me and you’re like, that was the worst episode ever. You were late, like pretty much you laid out, like, and as you laid out that list effectively, like here’s all the things that we actively learned. And I was like, dude, that list is so good.

And as. Um, as I was reading it, I was like, dude, we actually do this. Um, we, um, we invest, you know, Daniel and what Vienna vest and masterworks. And we’d like to invest in asset classes where it’s wine, it’s art, not real estate necessarily, because what we’re curious to see is like, how do they present their deals?

How do they talk about it? How, like all of the things that you’re talking about, how did they underwrite? How did they do their due diligence? Like, how were

[00:13:51] Dan: they presented? What’s there. What are you learning? Like what kind of communications they send? Um, how do they facilitate the [00:14:00] signing process? We’re just basically doing market research on comparable, uh, companies, whether it’s the same asset class or night to try to improve on our end.

So it’s, we’re already doing it, but like I said, we looked at that question through a little bit different lens, so yeah, it was really.

[00:14:17] Jeff: And presenting that to the investor. That’s more of a sales deal and I can’t sell shit. So I’m the wrong guy that goes, sell something. And some guys are really good at it, but the guys that are good at it.

A really good perspective of who their audience is and what angle they got to take. Cause you talked about the three different types of people that you want to go talk to with investors. And for me, I’m just, you know, I’m like, I’m the guy that’s going to try to talk them out of a, Hey man, this is risky and you could lose your money and, you know, giving them all the obvious stuff, want to do this deal.

I barely want to do this deal. This thing sucks, you know, but you know, we’ve built up so much. [00:15:00] Uh, around us now with, with getting involved in these deals. And, and we have people coming to us and wanting to throw money at our deals and we’re thinking, Hey, we just want to throw money at other guys deals because it’s, it’s, we’re, we’re learning some, some different advantages of being an LP.

[00:15:18] Anthony: Well, this is something that, um, I have this conversation with every new student that I coach for Jake and Gino, like in the first call I sit down and I’m like, let’s get really good. Do you want to invest in real estate or do you want to build a real estate investing company? Because there’s a very different things.

And one, and I asked this question because I’ve seen your evolution personally, of like, you know, a couple of years ago it was, Hey, I think they maybe want to be a syndicator and raise cap or like do these deals and bring people into it. And then it kind of evolved and you’re like, actually, I don’t think I want to do that at all.

I think I want to passively invest in these deals because now I can focus on the other cool things that I have in my life, like playing the base [00:16:00] power tower. Like, so like walk us through that, that mindset. Cause you came in, I felt like from the beginning thinking you were going to go one way, like, oh, we’re going to build a business around this, which you already had.

Right? Like, and then you started to realize, oh, there was another way I don’t have to keep doing.

[00:16:16] Jeff: Yeah, that’s great question. We had Dar who you guys know, um, big props to him at one point he says to us, what is it that you want to do? You guys need to decide what you want to do. And we thought, yeah, what is the hell we wanted?

Because we w we were that shiny lure thing. And so we said, I, and I do think that syndication is something that we will do someday. I just don’t want to do it right now. And, and I, and I would have never known that had I not got into this as an LP. And because I understand the work it takes to get there and.

When it’s, when you have investors that are putting their money in, [00:17:00] you need to perform very well, because it’s your word. And let’s be honest. You want to, you want to do the next deal. That’s why you want this deal to work. So good is, is because that next deal is going to be even better and you do two or three of them.

Now you got guys just you’re turning away and you’re only taking the big fish and say, let’s run faster. But I think what we’ll do that, it’s just the timing wasn’t right for us. And, you know, I certainly don’t want that. I do want to jump back because one of the biggest lessons I wanted to learn when we did this was how to structure deal.

And, uh, by learning, by getting involved in several of them, now you get to see, you know, okay, there’s the GP side, the LPC. Well, who’s involved with this GP side and what are their roles? And then the LP. How do you split the money? What you know, is, is it a guaranteed is preferred. Is that the guarantee? You know, which at first I thought I want the preferred and now I’m thinking, what the hell does that matter?

If it doesn’t make money, it’s not [00:18:00] coming anyway. But so really convoluted, if

[00:18:03] Dan: you want to really over-complicate the structure. Like we have always chosen to stick with a fairly basic one, but, you know, for those listeners who aren’t aware of. You can get very convoluted with how you slice and dice these deals and the order in which people get paid and all that.

[00:18:19] Jeff: So, yeah, you don’t want return on investment return of investment. There was a big like, whoa, I didn’t even think of that one. And that’s, that’s important stuff to understand. And, and I never would have learned that had I had, I just been trying to do the syndication and I would have lost time. This is a year and a half, and I’m getting paid to learn this, but.

You know, you can’t be that guy that, uh, puts in 50 grand and calling, Hey, Dan, what’d you doing today? Did you do the damn way in and just bothering this guy? Cause most of these deals 50 to a hundred grand is going to be your, your minimum Annie to get in. And you can’t be that you got to know your [00:19:00] place and go, Hey, your, they got some big fish in this deal and you get invited along this ride.

And it’s not, I’m not saying that this is not a lot of money. It is a lot of money, but you got to understand that. That’s not your role. That’s not the role to teach. They got, they got to operate this thing. They can’t be taking a phone call from me every day and saying, what are you doing here? What are you doing?

[00:19:22] Anthony: Yeah. And the point there is that. And what you were talking about before we went live here is to, when it comes to educating yourself in this, in this way, like you really have to take the reins and you have to be the proactive one and figure out how are you going to extract the information in a way that doesn’t cause undue friction with the operators, but also still gives you the information that you need.

So I guess one of the things is just coming in with an actual live. Uh, things that you want to learn. Right? And like from day one, I want to invest in this deal and I’m going to do that because I want to see how they underwrite. So I’m going to pay particularly close attention to that. [00:20:00] How they talk about due diligence, I’m going to ask good questions there and then how do they present the deal?

So I’m going to pay attention, not just to the deal that I’m not just watching the movie, but as I’m watching the movie, I’m thinking, how did they, like, how is this. Presenting right now, or how did the, why did the director make this call? So you’re pulling back a step and thinking like larger.

[00:20:21] Jeff: Yeah. You get to be the football coach of a replay game on this, if you take it.

Right. So you got the, you got your underwriting that you’ve been presented with you’re in this deal after you’ve agreed to get in the deal, take it and throw it away. Ask. Ask the GP, if you could have the original T 12 and the, and the proforma and have him send it to you, cause that’s easy for the, for the GP to do underwrite it yourself, see what you come up with and then compare that to the underwriting they have.

And then watch this thing move along each year and keep comparing. Oh, that’s why they put [00:21:00] 3% bumps into their expense categories. And this is why, and it’s, you’ll learn a ton, but again, that’s stuff that it’s just there for the taking. You just gotta go get it.

[00:21:14] Dan: Yeah. I think that’s, that’s an important nuance there that a lot of, a lot of people that we’ve had conversations with who have said that they’ve, uh, intended to learn how to be operators.

I invested in patients. I don’t know. I ain’t, I don’t think they had the, the, the questions identified like Anthony aside. They had kind of a high level concept of, I want to learn how to do this, but that’s, as far as they took it, they didn’t have a, uh, Jeff give our list of 10 specific things that are going to try to pull out.

And they were expecting like a, an experience that you’d get when you go and hire a coach where they’re going to show up. Yep. Do it for you. They’re going to actively teach you at best. Like you said, there, you’ve got to take the reins and extract that information yourself. It’s there. Um, you can get out without being [00:22:00] a, you know, a nuisance to the operator or anything like that, but, uh, it’s, it’s on you as the investor.

You’re, you’re not hiring a coach. So if you want to get some information, it’s probably going to require a little bit more effort on your end than if you were to go to Jake and Gino and hire a coach, you know, teach me how to be a syndicator. Like you could get that over. That’s that’s a thing that’s easy.

I’m trying to extract it this way. It’s going to require a little bit more work and, but definitely doable.

[00:22:25] Anthony: Yeah, I agree. There’s a, there’s a quote I’m trying to find. Um, I think it might’ve been Jim Roan who said something like to the effect I’m going to butcher this horrible, uh, uh it’s. I can’t remember how to put it, so it’s going to be super bad, but.

The knowledge you acquire yourself outside of school on your own time is far more valuable than anything you’ll learn in school. So like self knowledge or self-taught that’s so bad is like, um, the most [00:23:00] important lessons that you’re going to learn. And, and here there’s not a coach. There’s not going to be somebody.

I think if you’re going into. An LP situation, thinking that the GP is going to hold your hands and teach you the ropes. You’re going to be very disappointed, but that does not mean that there is, there is still a ton to be learned. My being a passive partner in a deal. If your goal is to make that jump into being a general partner at some point in the future,

[00:23:24] Jeff: um, I would, I would take it one step further and say, if that’s your thought process, I don’t think they’re going to succeed in real estate at all.

Because nobody along the way is going to force you to learn this stuff. There’s, there’s all kinds of people out there that that’ll help you all the way free or paid. It doesn’t really matter that’s there. But if you’re going in with a mindset of show me how to do this, and I got my pencil, but that is, that’s not how you do it.

It just doesn’t work like that. There’s no real estate for investing courses that you can take. [00:24:00] To, to do even Jake and Gino the best one out there. It’s just filled with tons of content. Nobody’s forcing you to go on and take this stuff. You have to go do it and then apply it and then do it and apply it and you’ll get there.

But if you that whole mindset, I think if that’s your mindset, you need to find a job where someone’s telling you what to do. And, and, and you’ll be fine. And, and there’s

[00:24:24] Anthony: nothing wrong with that. Like, just understand your personality. And I found the quote, I found the Jim road coat. So here we go. Formal education will make you a living self-education will make

[00:24:35] Jeff: you a.

Amen. I agree. That’s not bad either. That’s not bad. That’s pretty good.

[00:24:44] Anthony: All right, boys, this has been awesome. I’m at a lot of fun, but Jeff, at the beginning, you mentioned like there was, you had a most important lesson, right? Like that before we went live, you’re like, here’s the most important lesson I’ve

[00:24:57] Jeff: learned.

So yes. So. [00:25:00] So we did this for the wrong reason, occurred in you guys to learn how to be a syndicator, which, which, uh, you know, even the Invictus boys can be wrong once in a while on that one. But, um, I know you did. I see it, but what we personally learned by going and doing these is. It’s a pretty good gig to be an LP.

And I think that’s where most, all of us want to end up. I know, uh, when I retire, I don’t want to be a GP. I want to, I want to go get a jockey that wants to run fast and work hard, and it’s got the experience and the skill set to make it happen. And I can evaluate that because I’ve been there. I’ve done it.

I understand what it takes. And so. Well, we, the best lesson we learned about being an LP is we want to continue being LPs and, and, and that’s passive income because we call ourselves or active, passive and come people right now. We actively look [00:26:00] for places to passively put our money and that’s it. It can be simple, right?

But it’s not easy. Cause you guys wrote the book on it being simple and it’s laid out, but it’s still not easy to do. You gotta do the work. It’s got it. Somebody has got to do it. Yeah.

[00:26:16] Dan: Yeah. I agree with that. A hundred percent. I got to say, I mean, I absolutely love what we’re doing right now. Andy and I are both entrepreneurial and we both really, really love building things like this and um, making them grow and making them more efficient.

It’s like we really enjoy the process of that. Uh, with that said we’re at 35 and every time we’re sending out distributions, I’m looking at this. I’m like, man, like this is a lot of money. Like, you know, 15 to 20% a year, you know, once you have a decent amount of capital there. You could do really well, just kicking back and getting the quarterly or monthly distribution.

Um, and so I can see an argument for, you know, once we get a little bit older and [00:27:00] kids are growing up and want to spend more time with them and stuff like that, like heck yes, uh, more LP stuff, reduce the act of stuff. There’s still going to be something there. Right. So we got to scratch that itch a little bit, still

[00:27:12] Jeff: to have

[00:27:12] Dan: it, but it’s definitely going to becoming a smaller portion as time goes on and, you know, pass to make it 15 to 20%.

Pretty damn good deal.

[00:27:20] Anthony: Yeah, I’ve always, I’ve always looked at it like, uh, when I’m building a business, I want to build it in a way where, uh, down the road I’m not needed. Like I want to have the ability to go passive inside of any business that I built. And that has to be built in a very particular way with awesome rockstar people around you.

But, um, if I’m doing the same thing today, or like, if I’m doing the same thing in 20 years that I’m doing today, I’m probably doing something wrong. Like I’m not growing, I’m not expanding. I haven’t challenged in, in, in, in grown to my potential. Um, but I want to get, I want to get to the point where I can be passive at Invictus.

We’re not there. We’re not, we’re not even remotely close to that.

[00:27:58] Dan: And even when we get there, we’re [00:28:00] still going to be, you know, opting to engage with. For fun. Not because we have to, but because we actually just enjoy,

[00:28:07] Jeff: but it’ll be different and it’s different. Every, every business I’ve ever been involved with is the whole Michael Gerber, the work on your business, not in your business and, and if you’re in it and it’s relying on you, that’s great for some people.

That’s just not where I want to be. I want to. Out in front, growing and growing and growing and just kind of working on it and being there for the people that, that are doing the stuff. So I, you know, I get rid of all the roadblocks and make it easier for them to run faster because I’m a pretty fast runner, not in real life.


[00:28:45] Anthony: you play on the. I I’ve seen her. I’ve seen videos of you playing the bass. Like, don’t let this man sandbag you,

[00:28:56] Jeff: I get caught doing that. That’s true. That’s true. [00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Dan: So what was the capture on that? Is that how you get ready? Every time? Yeah, I,

[00:29:05] Jeff: we, I wake up the next morning. I thought, what the hell am I so sore from?

I just played the bass. And then I started watching videos of us playing. I go thinking I’m running all over. I’m jumping up and down. It’s it’s truly a good time I have, but I gotta be in shape. Cause if you can’t play good, you gotta like run around and act like you’re doing something. I love it. I

[00:29:28] Anthony: love it.

All right, guys, this has been fantastic. So Jeff. Parting message of wisdom for the people

[00:29:34] Jeff: at home, seek your own knowledge. There’s people out there that will help you, but it’s up to you to go grab it. The ships there, you got to swim to it. Ah, I love that. That’s such a good,

[00:29:47] Anthony: that’s like a mic drop moment right there.

The boots there, you just got to swim to it. That’s so good. I’ve never, I’ve never heard it put that way. So you’re, you’re a true gem. Jeff, you’re a [00:30:00] fantastic leader. Uh, a pretty good basis,

[00:30:03] Jeff: um, from, from.

Um, the second or third best bass player in our band. So

[00:30:14] Anthony: there you go. So Jeff, if anybody wants to get ahold of you, like, is there, is there any, do you want to, here’s a chance to plug yourself if you want to get people to come out to your shows or reach out to you and F and G it’s

[00:30:24] Jeff: called the rocket fuel haulers, and we’re going to play at the chicken check.

So no goods, wherever know I I’m not selling anything. If anybody wants to contact me, I’m on Facebook and LinkedIn. And, and I I’m happy to help people. I talk to people all the time. Uh, I love talking this industry. I love talking business. I’m a serial entrepreneur as well. And, uh, I’ve been involved in a lot of different industries and I don’t plan on stopping now.

We’ve got some things we’re planning to keep rolling and it’s fun, but, and I love helping people. So yeah, they [00:31:00] can contact me if they want. I don’t, I’m not, I don’t have anything to sell them, but my advice is pretty cheap. So.

[00:31:06] Anthony: Yeah, it’s valuable.

[00:31:07] Jeff: It’s priceless. It’s priceless. It’s worth what they’ll pay that’s for sure.

There you go.

[00:31:13] Anthony: All right guys. So this was a very different type of episode than our usual. Um, we didn’t bring any bad investment advice. Like I know book recommendations for you guys today. I just wanted to bring Jeff in and have this conversation

[00:31:24] Jeff: because there’s your recommendation right there.

[00:31:27] Anthony: The people do you just always have that on the desk?

[00:31:33] Jeff: I even got it signed by those guys right there. That’s good one. That’s going to be worth something someday. It is. It is.

[00:31:38] Anthony: I got, so, uh, you heard Jeff go pick up a copy of passive investing, made simple, otherwise. Um, I mean, your mother’s going to be very disappointed in you. So I thought I’d to tell you that’s going to do it for us guys and gals.

We appreciate you taking a little bit of time out of your day. Now go find the ship and swim to it.[00:32:00]

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