This week Anthony is breaking down return metrics… but you’ve probably never heard of these metrics!
ROI… return on investment, right? Not today. In this episode, Dan and Anthony will go through 5 unconventional return metrics and why they are so important when working in the real estate investing industry!
ROT- Return on Time
ROK- Return on Karma
ROE- Return on Energy
ROI- Return on Impact
ROR- Return on Reputation
All of these are key to multifamily real estate investing!
“Reputation is one of those things that. takes years to build, and seconds to tarnish.” – Anthony Vicino
“Our goal is basically just to walk around all day long and just help everybody around us every way we can.” – Dan Krueger
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[00:00:00] Anthony: hello and welcome to multifamily. Investing made simple to podcasts. It’s all about taking the complexity out of real estate investing so that you can take action today. I’m your host, Anthony casino of Invictus capital joined by
[00:00:24] Dan: Dan I’m live credit in life. And so it was read it’s in the background for everybody who is a, I wish there was a way we could turn the
[00:00:31] Anthony: camera.
[00:00:33] Dan: read camera, like a little GoPro up here that just right back there. Just,
[00:00:37] Anthony: just imagine a, a guy, um, who looks like a person, uh, sitting behind a computer monitor. That is what you have an accurate reflection of what red looks like right now. It’s such a vivid image. So for our listeners at home who are actually listening to the podcast, because this is an audio format.
That we record these in 4k and then [00:01:00] put our pimply faces on YouTube so that you can go watch all of this. But also on Fridays, we are trying this new thing where we’re recording live. So if you feel like coming and seeing how the, how the magic is made, how the pudding is put it, how do you, what do you do with it?
[00:01:15] Dan: stir, stir. It makes it makes whisk. Uh, there might be anyways, if you
[00:01:21] Anthony: want to see how the sausage is made, stopped by a Facebook or YouTube, is that
[00:01:28] Dan: the most
[00:01:28] Anthony: appropriate, then go over to Facebook or YouTube on Fridays, usually around sometime between three and five central and follow along live.
You can interact with us. You can leave comments. You can hackle us, Paul. God, that’d be fun. Hey, if anybody’s listening to this right now, go ahead. Kloss. Anyways, enough of that. So let’s, let’s, let’s talk about. Let’s go, let’s get serious for a second. I was thinking about it today. I was reading my spreadsheets.
I was, I was going through the numbers. That’s crunching. I was crunching the margins, the profits. I was looking at it all. And I was like, you know what? Check the spread. It [00:02:00] doesn’t cover everything. I was looking at cash on cash IRR. I had my AAR, I had my ARV I’m at T T T I have my three PO and I was like, you know what?
This is. This isn’t giving me the full picture. I can’t really tell if my investment is going well. Um, so I sat down and I was like, okay, what are the metrics I need? And I created five metrics, five they’re brand new. Um, I there, I made them, you heard it here first. Yeah. This is happening in real time people.
And I’m going to share these metrics with you cause you’re probably not paying enough attention to them. So how do you really know your investments are any good? How do you know? Because one, you don’t know what these five metrics are. First of all, once I tell you, you will know them. Um,
[00:02:42] Dan: which spreads is Berry that lead and tell them later.
[00:02:44] Anthony: So let’s put that aside. That you have a taste for what’s to come. All right. So Dan, you know what, you know what the people really want. They don’t care about any of that. They want their bad investment advice. They want to know what not to do or what to do, depending on how masochistic they are.
[00:02:59] Dan: Yeah. [00:03:00] Well, you got, I got something for you.
Having the quiddity in your investments is. It reduces the risks specifically, because if you can turn around and exit, when something hits the fan, then uh, that theoretically should reduce your risks. Now, um, liquidity sounds like a good thing. And we’ve talked about this in a few different, um, uh, ways before that, you know, sometimes a lack of liquidity can be a good thing for, for various reasons, but to Dave, the angle I’m going to take yours is less about liquidity and more about the duration of the hold period, because I was, and this is going to tie into the book review.
Uh, but something that’s interesting is when you look at historical returns for, I want to say just about anything, the book that I’m referencing is more about public markets, but, um, we’ll get to the book review or the book recommendation at the end. So you’ll see what I’m talking about. But, um, what you’ll find is if you look at data the longer the hold period, Most things, uh, definitely market investments like stocks or index funds or things like that.
Uh, the, the, the [00:04:00] lower the amount, or I should say the less likelihood there is for negative returns. Right? So if you have a one-year hold period over. Increments of time, uh, the likelihood of you getting a down a result. Like if you hold for just a year and you happen to hold for, let’s say 2008, it’s not going to be a good year, but if you start going out, you know, one year, five year, 10 year hold period, 20 year hold period.
When you start getting into those long hold periods, um, you’re giving things enough time to, uh, to go your way, right? And with enough time, uh, your investment theory will, or your investment thesis will probably be. I might take a really long time, but if you start bringing that hold period down, that doesn’t give you much time for things to go your way and a lot of things can happen.
So my point with this one is that don’t worry about. Being able to exit things quickly. If you want to make money, give it some time, invest in things for the longterm. And don’t worry about trying to get in and out and make money really quick. Cause that’s a, that’s a tall order. Yeah.
[00:04:59] Anthony: I [00:05:00] I’ve taught, we’ve talked about this in previous episodes.
Um, time de-risks all investments on a long timeframe, things go up eventually and like on a long they, they tend to, and assuming the world doesn’t end, um, It’s hard to imagine that most investment thesises are going to implode. So even bad ones, even bad. Exactly. Even bad ones on a long enough timeframe tend to go up.
So, um, just play longer when we have investor onboarding calls, one of the things it’s like a two-way street, it’s, it’s a first date for both parties. Like we’re vetting the investor. The investor is vetting us. One of the things I tell our investors. The people that we really want to work with are the ones who have a really long time horizon in mind.
They’re not just looking for the two year fix and flip and like pump and dump and get my money and run to the next thing. It’s more like let’s play for 10, 15, 20 years together. Like that’s the timeframe maybe even longer, ideally, because when it comes to real estate, like it’s the best get rich slowly, but surely plan out there.
And if you just hold real estate [00:06:00] long enough, like, I, I shudder to think is there even real estate out there besides like the. That doesn’t go up. I’m just getting Detroit, even Detroit has started going back up now. Right?
[00:06:10] Dan: So it’s like, I mean, you could say land, like if you’re just doing vacant land stuff and that’s kind of a, maybe no one ever wants it.
Right. But if you’re buying a building that produces income and income stream, and you’re not in a just horrible market, like given 20, 30 years, you’re probably going to do better than break. One of
[00:06:28] Anthony: the things, um, when it comes to real estate that we talk about how one of the big weaknesses is the illiquidity.
That the fact that it takes a really long time to get your money in and get your money out, like sell an asset, whatever I get in that. And people, some people are like, I want to be able to trade quicker. Like I can with a stock market and my crypto, I can get in and out instantly. And I started thinking about it and.
I was like, you know what? I think the liquidity is a feature, not a bug. It’s actually a good thing because in a lot of cases, it stops you from making those needs, jerk decisions or chasing the easy yield over here, the shiny object, [00:07:00] and it just forces you to, to stay the course. Honestly, there’s a lot to be said about just like being forced to stay the
[00:07:06] Dan: course.
Yeah. It kind of, it kind of keeps emotion at bay because if you want to do a thing, buy or sell a property, I mean, unless you’re just transacting in cash and you’ve got a really good network of other people that can do that quickly, you’re looking at a one to two month transaction. And so if you are emotionally charged up over something at some point over that long period of time, you’ll probably.
You know, come out of that state and be a little bit more rational. So I see it as a good thing with that said the market is trending in the direction with, uh, NFTs and all the new technologies that’s going to be applied that we’re probably going to have a lot more liquidity in the future, which, I mean, there’s good parts to it.
Don’t get us wrong. Liquidity isn’t bad, but there is a benefit to it. They can’t, they said it, it keeps some of that emotional activity at bay. Yeah.
[00:07:51] Anthony: So I like that. I think liquidity is an interesting conversation. So, uh, what do you say. You pivot [00:08:00] segue into some return metrics could pivot that you’re not paying enough attention to
[00:08:04] Dan: Daniel.
I know I don’t. I have no idea what you’re gonna say. Okay. So
[00:08:08] Anthony: the first one, your first return metric that you’re not paying enough attention to rot rot or your rot. Yeah, you’re right. Rot your return on time. Oh, I thought you were
[00:08:22] Dan: talking about like
[00:08:22] Anthony: rotting wood. No. Your return on time? The reason I was thinking about this one is we recently did a deal where we didn’t negotiate the partnership split very well manually live and learn.
And in the end we didn’t. So a ton of money and that’s okay. Like, cause we’re the type of people that would prefer to do really longterm deals and relationships and building that. And sometimes that means like sacrificing the short term, transactional value for the long-term relation and all that. So not complaining about that, but if you were just looking at it, he was like, okay, you guys make good money.
You got into this deal. Didn’t really put any of your own [00:09:00] capital into it. That’s pretty awesome. But then when you really start calculating how much time went into that deal and getting it done. Well, maybe then it wasn’t a very good deal.
[00:09:11] Dan: What do you think? I, I agree with that thousand percent just because I know you and I both spend a lot of time paying attention to this concept, not just with the investments that we do, but with literally everything we do throughout the day is this thing.
Whether it’s doing the laundry. Washing the dishes, uh, driving that meal, cooking the meal, doing this deal, whatever it is like how much time is this taking? And is there a higher and better use of my time? Is this something that either could be done more efficiently? Or could I get somebody to help me with this?
So I can do things with my time that only I can do. I think we pay a lot of attention to this, uh, just because of where we’re at in our business. Uh, when you scale a business, you have to become aware of this. If you don’t, you’re just gonna, you know, Flatliners. Reach, uh, a ceiling you’re going to be tapped out, but a lot of people don’t think [00:10:00] about this.
And I think that is, uh, comes up quite a bit on, on calls with new investors where they’re kind of dabbling between, you know, do I want to be active? Do I want to be passive? And it’s, we, we kind of come to this topic quite a bit with these people and help them to kind of unpack. Okay. What is it that you’re trying to get here?
What do you value in nine times out of 10? It always turns out that yeah, if you want to be an active investor, you can make a little bit more. But is it worth the time? Are you going to quit your job or are you just going to do this in the evenings and ignore your family? Like. So
[00:10:31] Anthony: our training, our buddy, our friend, or good or good neighbor Naval, Ravikant always talks about, um, aspirational values or like what’s the value of your time and setting an aspirational wage.
And his, when he was first starting out was $5,000. And so he would say any task per hour per I’m sorry, what did
[00:10:49] Dan: I say? He just said 5,000,
[00:10:51] Anthony: $5,000 over a lifetime $5,000 an hour. And he said, okay, this time. If I can outsource it for less than $5,000 an hour, [00:11:00] I’m not going to do it. And that was well before he was ever earning $5,000 an hour.
So it was, it was an exercise. It’s a mental exercise, but there’s a lot of value in evaluating what you’re doing with your time and your energy throughout the day. And so. R H if I could outsource, if I, if I was getting paid $5,000 an hour, what I spend my time doing this thing.
[00:11:19] Dan: Yeah. And I think that’s probably the most important piece, right.
There is really pegging a dollar to it because it’s, it’s something that is tough to wrap your head around. But when you actually do the math on what your time. And then look at the thing you’re doing and look at the cost of outsourcing it. It becomes a very black and white situation, but if you don’t think about it in terms of numbers, you don’t quantify it.
It’s really easy to justify driving around, trying to find cheaper gas or do all these things. That
[00:11:45] Anthony: classic
[00:11:46] Dan: one, just do all these things that you’re conditioned to do. If you’re someone like me who grew up in a household where there wasn’t that much money and saving money. Yeah, like that stuff was so enforced in my behavior when I was young, that it was really hard to turn that off.
And I [00:12:00] still haven’t turned it off with respect to how I think about things. I’m still always looking at prices and thinking about them, but really making that shift of not spending your time on that and being okay with hiring like a cleaner or something to come help you out with that stuff. Like, it seems weird at first, but then you do the math on it.
It’s like, yeah, that makes perfect sense.
[00:12:19] Anthony: All right. So that’s that’s number one. That’s rot that’s return on time. I don’t know about the name, but it is what it is. What do you want me to do? I can’t change the words, but it, we have to add
[00:12:31] Dan: any, you don’t need to spell it.
[00:12:33] Anthony: Call it roadie turned on time. Um, I had, I have that like three nights a week for dinner.
Um, shout out to Rudy, I guess. All right. Uh, return metric number two, that you’re not paying enough time and attention to. Roe.
[00:12:49] Dan: I don’t this one. No, you don’t. Yes, I do. No, you don’t. Did you change it? Yes. Return on effort.
[00:12:55] Anthony: Oh, that was super close. Really return on energy. And that’s a good one. Yeah, but it’s tied.
It’s the [00:13:00] same concept, which is, and this is very closely linked with return on time, but it’s asking the question. How hard is this thing going to be to do like how much, how physically or mentally stressful is this thing?
[00:13:11] Dan: That’s the one for me, but that’s where my brain went with it because I know we just did time.
So it’s obviously not about that. It’s about, for me, I was thinking like mental bandwidth, because you’ve only got at least I don’t need data for this, but I feel like you’ve only got so much, um, juice in the tank mentally speaking for the day. And I think I’ve, I’ve seen some. Uh, kind of speaks to like, decision-making, I feel like you kind of debunked that.
Yeah. I’ve gotten pretty deep on
[00:13:32] Anthony: this one, but a lot of people talk about how willpower is a finite resource. It’s a muscle and it depletes over time, there was a study that found that people make better or better decisions early in the day. They have more willpower earlier in the day. Subsequent studies have debunked it, but I think, I think as a framework it’s still really, really helpful.
[00:13:50] Dan: Totally. It feels right. It feels right. So. Well, yeah, I mean, that’s another thing to consider. Maybe it doesn’t take time. Maybe it doesn’t take, um, physical [00:14:00] exertion, but is it distracting your brain from things that matter? Like, even if it’s not an active thing, if, if it’s in the back of your head just bouncing around back there, it could be detrimental to other things.
So, yeah. Yeah,
[00:14:10] Anthony: yeah. Like, um, the, the social, or like the, um, emotional weight of things, like these things matter, like, like I, I talk about this all the time. Like how you make your money map. Whether you’re working at W2 and hate it, or you work in a W2 and you love it, or you own your own business and you hate it, or you love it.
Like these, this matters in the same way that when you’re investing, how you make your money in an investment matters. Like if I’m in an investment that is up one day by 50% down the next day, by a hundred percent then up again by 200. So at crypto, if I’m in crypto, right, like I’m making money, that’s kind of a sucky way to make money.
If it’s all, if, if all of your net worth is in crypto, you probably haven’t. Unless you’re very, very rich and you don’t
[00:14:54] Dan: care or you size it properly. Now this is probably okay. There was somebody that said this and I [00:15:00] can’t remember who it was. It was some big kind of fund manager, wall street, money manager, guy who had a lot of, um, a good reputation.
So people listened to him and he said something along the lines of when a butcher it’s, I’m not going to claim this as a quote, but the point he was trying to make was to make sure that your. When you make an investment, make sure that the position size is small enough that you can sleep at night regardless of what happens.
So bring all your holdings down to your. I’m going to leave at night level. I forget what he called it. It sounded great. But if you have to check something to see whether or not you’re up or down and it’s emotionally charging for you, then it’s either too big of a position or you’re in the wrong thing.
Like you gotta make it so that it almost doesn’t matter.
[00:15:40] Anthony: Okay. Yeah, this is, this is a huge one, I think. Um, Roe, and just so you guys know, Roe is usually returned. Yeah, which we’ve talked about in previous episodes, but I think this new one return on energy is super important because it’s probably one that not enough people are really, really thinking about.
It might be flying under the radar. And I was like,
[00:15:59] Dan: it is, cause it [00:16:00] just got made up and just made it up,
[00:16:02] Anthony: happened to your people. All right. So return metric, number three, that you’re not paying enough attention to is ROI now, you know, Um, sneaky Dianne hall. It’s the house sneaky. Do you think I am, maybe I’m double D double juking.
You and I’m actually just gonna double back now and go with the tried and true return on investment ROI. What do you think? Do you think I do that? No. No? Okay. It’s not what you think it
[00:16:29] Dan: is a return on interest. Nope. Turn on. I don’t know. All
[00:16:36] Anthony: right. So for everybody listening at home, pause and go to go to iTunes and in the comments, I want you to take a guess, guess what you think.
This is what I’m about to say. If you get it right, I’m going to send you a gift card for a gift. Yeah. Uh, if you’re on Facebook right now and you’re listening to this live, then you guys can leave comments right now as we go, uh, read. Is anybody engaging with this? All [00:17:00] right. So what are their guesses? Any guesses?
No guesses. We’re still waiting for a guesses. Okay. So ROI, we’re going to come back to, we’re going to save it to the end. Someone gets, if you’re listening to this on Facebook, you have a couple of minutes to drop your guests in there. If you get it right, you get a gift card for a gift.
[00:17:17] Dan: Not a good gift, not a gig, not a good gift.
It’s an old sandwich. That’s probably expired.
[00:17:22] Anthony: It was good. It would have been good at one point. All right. So let’s skip that one and put a pin in it and come back to it and we’ll go straight to return metric number four. Okay. But you’re not paying enough to. R. Okay.
[00:17:34] Dan: Ooh. Return on Krueger. Good one. Uh, uh, was a dad joke.
I think you’ve got a good one. good.
[00:17:44] Anthony: Yeah. Hold on. No, are okay. We’ve uh, we’ve talked about this one. I’ll turn on karma. It’s not new. Nope. Tell me about it. Um, I assume I’m new or I’m a listener who’s never heard of R
[00:17:57] Dan: okay. R O K return on [00:18:00] Krueger. The, uh, return
[00:18:01] Anthony: on Carmen. You should go ahead and get out of that.
So that’s a cell it’s return, short napping, short, shorter. He said his peak in life. He’s
[00:18:12] Dan: only on the downhill. Uh, so we have a core value that is a very important to us called, uh, we lead with value. Um, and so we make a point of prioritizing helping others. First and foremost and our own interests, whether it be profit or knowledge or some sort of resource, like whatever we may or may not want from somebody who’s kind of like way back here.
Um, our goal is basically just walk around all day long and just help everybody around us every way we can.
[00:18:43] Anthony: Well like Oprah or like help for you and some help for you. Yeah. I mean,
[00:18:47] Dan: we don’t have that budget, so we just try to help with like information and connections to help you with those groceries education.
But, but basically that’s what we do is we just go around trying to help people and we make all these little. Uh, [00:19:00] karma investments, so to speak in all these different places. And it’s, it’s kind of like, um, angel investing, right? Where like you’re throwing a bunch out there and something, some guardian angel Sunday.
Yeah. But, uh, but basically it’s, it’s you just go out and you provide value to other people, you, uh, you know, get good karma and you invest in others. Whether it’s information, you provide some of, kind of. And at some point, something’s going to come back to you and that’s the return on karma that you’ve built up by helping people and providing value that if you do that, it’s going to come back to you in some way, shape or form it’s guaranteed might not happen right away.
It might happen years from now, but, uh, that’s, that’s kind of our philosophy that we, we live by and we there’s no way to quantify it. So don’t, don’t try
[00:19:44] Anthony: it. There’s no XL feature for this, you know,
[00:19:47] Dan: you help somebody out, they come back to you later and do something for you. That’s that’s your return right there.
[00:19:52] Anthony: So this one, um, came to me a long time ago when I was listening to Gary V and he has a thing he says, which is doing the right thing is always the right thing. It’s so [00:20:00] stupid and simple and trite, but it’s true. Doing the right thing is always the right thing. And I think when you look at business or investing or whatever, you’re doing investing in real estate or invest in your relationships and your community, Doing the right thing.
And you always know what that is. Like, there’s not usually like a gray area when it comes to doing the right thing, your body just knows, and it might be different for everybody, but you know what right is for you and living in alignment with that. And just delivering on that every single day and trying your best to put good energy out into the universe.
It just all has a way of coming back around. Even if it doesn’t come back around in a financially beneficial way, it comes back in a. I would say like, uh, a soul pleasuring.
[00:20:46] Dan: Yeah. I always said that, like, you didn’t make a weird, I’ll make it normal for people. So I always like to say that, like the worst case scenario, when you do this kind of thing is that you provide a value to somebody and it [00:21:00] benefited them and maybe their life got better.
And if that’s all that happens, like that’s a really good downside because that feels amazing that help people. That’s your downside. Your upside is infinite and your downside is you just feel good. So this is
[00:21:12] Anthony: like, it’s reminds me of that friend’s episode with. Where I’m not good with friends. So Phoebe was talking about how there is like impossible.
They were talking about how it’s impossible to do a truly good deed or a selfless good deed or something like that. And she was like going around and trying to do all these things. And I don’t, I’m not a friends’ fanatic. Like Jamie is so she can tell the story better than me, but effectively it was like, I hope this person and like it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And like, yeah, but you feel good? She’s like, dang it. There’s no such thing as a selfless good deed anyway. Yeah. At minimum you feel good? Why.
[00:21:45] Dan: But don’t be like those people on social media, just go and do it just for clout and to film it humble. Bragging. Yeah. That’s like, let me just take a selfie, giving this homeless guy, someone it’s like, come on.
[00:21:56] Anthony: Uh, there’s a, there’s a verse in the Bible. Um, that’s all about not praying in [00:22:00] public or displaying your good deeds. Like do your good deeds and shut up. Just do it. Yeah. Go home. And, and, and it’s not lost on me that we’re recording a podcast and talking about how. We pray a lot and we do a lot of good deeds.
So a cut of some slack. We’re just trying to help what you want. Here we are. All right. Let’s get to know the next return metric. Remember, uh, do you still have a little bit of time to go over to apple if you’re listening to this on face, but get into the comments, drop a comment. Uh, what your best guess is for ROI and it’s not return on investment ROI.
What’s the I stand for? Mm. Read. I can see his mind ticking is going. Hm, mm Hm. Yeah, he’s grinding. All right. So number five. I’m really out of order now because I went to three and I skipped it. So we’re technically now on five and three, we’ll go to six or three. We’ll go back to three. No one knows the order so you can do whatever you want.
All right. Number, number five is RAR LA ROR, the RAR. Any [00:23:00] guesses on the
[00:23:01] Dan: return on righteousness? No,
[00:23:05] Anthony: no, no. Return on reputation.
[00:23:10] Dan: Okay. Yeah. So I’m done with those. I know reputation is a good thing. I’m just wondering, like what, what’s the return on that? It’s like business, right? So here’s the
[00:23:18] Anthony: thing. Yeah. Um, we’re in the middle of a deal of a negotiation with a seller who we’ve bought five buildings.
He came to us in the middle of our last transaction, which closed in January, February, something like that, which was with him, with him. And he came to us in the middle of that transaction. It’s like, you know what? I really like you guys, you do what you say. You’re easy to work with, like our reputation, like, cause we were been fostering that it’s like, I want to tell you the rest of my portfolio, 14 buildings.
We are pretty cool. We’re pretty cool. We got cool. Um, we
[00:23:46] Dan: are relaxed.
[00:23:47] Anthony: We’re relaxed kind of guys. I walk around snapping
[00:23:49] Dan: a lot fun fact. Uh, that’s an inside joke. Cool. And relaxed guys. There was a guy that said that to us in a very creepy voice once
[00:23:57] Anthony: there’s no really there’s no way to really [00:24:00] tell two dudes.
You are too cool and relaxed kind of guy, without it being weird years older than he made it, he made a weird, but anyway, good story. Um, okay. So return on reputation. It is reputation is one of those things that. Years to build seconds to tarnish. So you gotta be really careful with it. And I think the easiest way to tarnish your reputation is to not do what you said, which is one of our other core values, which, you know, we, we show up, we do what we say.
Two go hand in hand. Um, because if you, if you can’t be held accountable to what you say, you’re going to do, your reputation is worth nothing, nothing and deals are not going to come to you. People are not going to want to work with you. People aren’t going to want to be your lover. Like. Yeah, these things are related
[00:24:48] Dan: a hundred percent.
Yeah. And especially in real estate, it’s such a, a networky, um, uh, business where if you do something that’s unsavory, uh, even if it’s not like a malicious, if [00:25:00] it’s just, you know, bad etiquette, like. You know, Renee on a, an offer or something like that, an advantage of a seller or a buyer. Yeah. Um, you know, just doing anything that’s just bad etiquette, I guess, is how I would put it.
Uh, everyone’s going to know at some point and people are going to be less and less inclined to transact with you. So, um, yeah, I mean, it’s huge reputation. Everything. This is something where people are investing in us based on what they know about us. So that’s,
[00:25:29] Anthony: that’s everything, the thing with reputation.
And when it comes to businesses, as we call that brand brand is just another word for reputation or, you know, like intentional reputation building, is that depending on what you want to be known for you, you get to cultivate this reputation, you get a large part of that. And so maybe if you’ve never thought about it, sit down and reflect, like, what do I want to be known for?
You know, I want to be known as like a cool relaxed kind of guy. So that’s why. Okay,
[00:25:53] Dan: cool. Kind of relax and sports
[00:25:55] Anthony: abilities still working on that one day. We’ll get [00:26:00] there. So that’s rawr, I turn on reputation. All right. So let’s review these real quick. From the top we had rot, we had our return on time. We had our Roe return on energy.
We had ROI, which we have not revealed yet. We had return on when was my next one. I have a lot written down here. Uh, Rock. Oh yeah. Return on karma and then return on reputation. And so finally, drum roll here. We come to our line. Did anybody read, drop a gas? What did they say? What are the comments say, give me, give me, give me some insights here.
It’s not a guess, but listen,
[00:26:42] Dan: Coco is watching and very engaged. Fantastic. All right. So my
[00:26:48] Anthony: daughter. Pre-verbal
[00:26:51] Dan: she, her name is her name is Collins. She’s a girl it’s not calling. It is call-ins blurred color, cocoa color cocoa. [00:27:00] Color the bean.
[00:27:02] Anthony: I want to ask you something. I’ve been wondering this. Oh, because no, no, no, no.
When did you guys decide to call her Coco? Cause I remember when you guys first told me her name was Collins, the first thing I said was you should call her
[00:27:14] Dan: Coco. I think Liz can chime in. I don’t think she, it was like right when she was born. I don’t think it was cocoa before she was born. I think it was afterward.
I want to claim
[00:27:22] Anthony: this. I want to claim. I’m going to claim it. I’m doing it. I’m claiming it. It’s happening here. It’s on post it’s on Facebook live it can’t take it away. Now. Anthony came up with Coco. There we go. I did. It
[00:27:30] Dan: took almost guaranteed to be an accurate, almost guaranteed. The
[00:27:34] Anthony: internet doesn’t lie.
I saw it on
[00:27:35] Dan: Facebook. I know you’ve been very involved in her upbringing.
[00:27:41] Anthony: You’ve met her twice. I’ve met her more than twice. I better perform
[00:27:44] Dan: this. Can you fact check? Um, I’m 98% check 99% sure that this was
[00:27:51] Anthony: Liz. Okay. Sibling that one, a little sidetracked. Now our guests are not our guests. Our listeners are like, but what about ROI [00:28:00] at this point?
I’m here. Here. Yeah. That’s fair. Okay. We drew it out too far. Here it is guys. And gals it
[00:28:05] Dan: better. It would have been sucks after all that. No, I won’t. Trust me. Let’s hear ROI
[00:28:12] Anthony: return on impact.
[00:28:15] Dan: I mean, I like it because real life, I don’t
[00:28:17] Anthony: know what that, what that facial expression was. I kept that on brand then.
Why, why are you, why are you upset about that? That’s on brand. One of our core values is to be the impact driven for a investment firm of Minneapolis core value, a mission to the mission. Something, I dunno, impact means a lot to us. I mean, it’s a, one of our three uniques, like w we, we believe a lot in impact.
And when, when I was thinking about this one is what’s the, what, what impact are your investments really making on the. And I think we hear a lot more about this as like the woke culture as the young ones are these days. They want to know that like, what they’re investing in actually is making a positive influence on the world around them.
And so we hear a lot more about impact investing, but I’m curious to get your thoughts.
[00:28:58] Dan: Yeah. I think it’s huge. I mean, you can’t [00:29:00] just invest in something and, uh, do it to make money. The only thing, I mean, yeah, that, that’s great. But if you really want to feel good about what you’re doing and be passionate about it, you’ve got to be having some other kind of a value proposition for the world.
And specifically your community is really what you want to probably be focused on, or at least the community you’re investing in. You don’t want to just go in and extract capital. You want to go in and make something better and get compensated for that reason. So for us, the impact that we want to have at Invictus is we want to have a positive impact on every individual that.
Chooses to call one of our apartments, their home. We want to make sure that they don’t just rent an apartment so that they have a place to live for a period of time. We want to cultivate and, and curator a feeling of being at home and a sense of community. And that’s especially needed in the asset class that we invest in because you’ll get a lot of that kind of stuff in A-class high-end stuff.
That’s, that’s been, uh, just recently. But in some of the stuff that’s priced a little bit lower for more like a workforce blue collar type of resident, it’s [00:30:00] usually just like, here’s the keys? Here’s, here’s your place? Uh, your lease for a year. Um, I’ll send you a letter to, uh, renew in like nine months.
Don’t call us, don’t call us. Um, and that’s that’s about it. So our goal at the first one is to have that impact on those residents. And then, uh, because of. Okay. Our background, our stories where we came from, we didn’t come from places with money. We actually came from, uh, upbringings where money, and that was a stressor for us in different ways.
But Anthony, I both share that. And so, uh, we’ve overcome that and become financially literate and, and feel in control of our financial destinies now. And that’s an amazing feeling. And so we wanna, uh, share that feeling with other people, because most people don’t feel like. Control over that part of their life.
And if we can help that light bulb come on, where they realize that, oh, I can actually do this. I don’t have to just trust some guy in some office to take all my money and hopefully not lose it. Um, I can actually take a, uh, an active role in, in managing my [00:31:00] money, not necessarily managing the property, but make my own decisions here.
You know, create my own future, that that’s really
[00:31:06] Anthony: powerful and choose like the types of partners or types of investments that you want to put your money into. Like, again, like I, maybe I could put all my money into oil, but like, I don’t really believe in like, I don’t disbelieve in it, but I also don’t think the oil industry is doing all that much greatness for the world at large, when there’s other things that probably are making a better impact.
Right. And so battery like batteries or Elon Musk, if he had, if he was publicly traded, I would own a piece of his ass. Um, I can tell you it does work out, but I mean, he challenged Putin to a fight. I don’t love you. I don’t like Yolanda chances in that fight. I’ll be honest. Are you kidding me? Poon was like KGB man.
[00:31:45] Dan: Chill people show up with a fricking laser that doesn’t even exist yet. And Ilan.
[00:31:52] Anthony: He’s gonna just get one. It’s going to show up then with his army. Yeah. And then
[00:31:55] Dan: some sort of thing
[00:31:56] Anthony: that just in a one-on-one fight note. No moon, no lasers, no [00:32:00] weapons. All right.
[00:32:02] Dan: I’m going to
[00:32:03] Anthony: a war of the mind. I would put my money on Ilan at that point.
Yeah. Yeah. But I don’t know, like Putin’s probably not a dumb ass either. He’s probably a pretty sharp. Yeah, you probably don’t get to be there
[00:32:13] Dan: without me making skills. But I think he’s, he’s read a book or two,
[00:32:16] Anthony: so he’s been running a big country for a long time, so he’s doing something different, but I don’t know if good, he’s doing things, doing things that this is a slippery slope, so let’s get off of it.
Those are the five return metrics that you’re not paying enough attention to return on time return on energy return on karma return on impact and return on reputation. I did that all without looking at my sheet. Wow. Correct? No, not in order. Not at all. I got, I got board a real quick, but here we are guys.
Hopefully this gave you a new lens of perspective through which to look at your investments and consider like, do I like my portfolio? Should I shift? Or are there some changes I would like to make? Um, hopefully this is equips you with that, uh, new lens. I don’t know. Uh, if you enjoyed [00:33:00] this, go leave a review.
If you didn’t enjoy this, they’ll leave a review. If you’re neutral. Go leave a review. Um, my answer’s always the same. Oh, wait, no B okay. I need a, I jumped straight to the, the review. Okay. So I’m not going to ask for reviews anymore when I’m done with that. Um, so here’s a little bit more value sprinkled in Dan.
What’s our book recommendation for the week. All right.
[00:33:22] Dan: Book reco for the week. Can you sprinkle it?
[00:33:24] Anthony: Can you kind of do it with like the salt fingers
[00:33:26] Dan: fingers? So, yeah, just to reminder for the new live viewers. We got multiple cameras for the actual recording. So at this point, I’m going to do my closeup, which is over here.
So I apologize. A book review, a random walk down wall street. Uh, this is by, uh, have you read it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh, I just read it. It’s been around for a long time. I’ve heard. Yeah. Oh, wow. Um, I kind of knew what it was about, so I skipped it just cause I’ll get it. Um, but I just read a book called trillions.
Recently, which was about the, uh, the evolution and the development of the, [00:34:00] um, uh, mutual fund industry. And I thought coming off of that, that this one would be appropriate because of what it’s about. And, uh, you know, I read it and I was thinking I was going to dislike it more than I am to, uh, Actually I ended up just liking, I didn’t even really dislike it.
It was actually a, are you recommending and recommending
[00:34:17] Anthony: a book? You disliked?
[00:34:18] Dan: No, I went into it thinking I wasn’t going to like it. Okay. Okay. And, uh, it was actually halfway decent. Um, mostly because it wasn’t quite so focused on, um, mutual funds and index funds. Like I thought it would be, I mean, it definitely was focused on that.
The, the gist of the book was that, um, fundamental now. Probably not going to work for you. Uh, technical analysis, probably not gonna work for you. Uh, psychology human psychology that just muddies the waters even more. Index ones. Okay. And that’s what I thought that just the book was. And I was like, okay, like, we’ve heard that before and big surprise, the author, uh, was, uh, on the board of Vanguard.
Yeah. So obviously he’s, he’s got some incentive to [00:35:00] push the index funds, which is, you know, it is what it is. We talk about this all the time that, yeah, that’s a thing you can do, but I mean, it’s not that hard to do a hell of a lot better. Uh, but with that said, I think it’s still something where if somebody doesn’t want.
Any time or energy into things, and they don’t want to just outsource things to an advisor. This isn’t a half bad approach. And the part that I. Kind of shifted me a little bit, is there was real estate, uh, for people in their twenties, they recommended having 10% of their capital in real estate, which maybe a little bit low and then as, as hard to get into, and that’s kind of what I was thinking.
I was like, okay, that’s something for later. And then they got up to the age of, uh, when you’re in your sixties and they had 15% of them. So it was like, okay. So the fact that they didn’t poopoo real estate, I’m like, okay, I get that. I mean, I saw that on here in just word of the wise, when you’re reading books like this.
Sometimes something made sense when it was written. Just to make sense now, because we got bonds for 15%, that does not make sense. It makes no sense for someone in their [00:36:00] twenties, by a single bond don’t even in, when you’re in your sixties, the recommended 35%, like this all needs to be taken, uh, looked at through the context of whatever the economic environment in the early two thousands.
Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, the market’s changed a lot, uh, but in any case, so I think that if you really, if you want. I really cookie cutter approach to managing your money in a way that’s not completely stupid, then this is okay. But the difference between doing this and doing something infinitely better is not a whole lot more information or education.
So honestly, Read this to get started on things and then keep going with it. Yeah. It’s not a bad book, but you could do more than just what’s in the book.
[00:36:40] Anthony: I liked the book. I enjoyed it. Full disclosure. I asked an index. Yeah.
[00:36:44] Dan: I mean, everybody does, but I think the content like this kind of implies that, like that that’s where you stop.
[00:36:50] Anthony: Yeah. It’s a little over simplistic, but it’s a good place to start. It’s accessible.
[00:36:54] Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And what I like about that I will say is that it’s so the barrier to entry with that kind of stuff [00:37:00] is so. Where you could just set up an account where like a tiny bit of money is going every week, you know, 20 bucks, 30 bucks or something gets transferred over to a whatever brokerage you use.
And it just goes into index money. It makes it easy to kind of get, uh, into the saving slash investing routine. So you don’t have to feel like you’ve got to save up a big pile of money and then go do something big. It’s just, yeah. Anyways. Yeah. And
[00:37:23] Anthony: guys, this is not financial advice. Pontificating over here and just talking to this entertain, this is pure entertainment.
So if you use anything that we say, and it doesn’t work out, like that’s not on us, um, you shouldn’t have listened to us LinkedIn, but not a wink wink. Alright. Thank you, winking. I said wink, wink, but I’m a really bad Winker. I said, wink, wink as a substitute for the bad wink.
[00:37:46] Dan: No, this is the bad Winker too.
She can not wink. You hear that? Liz, if she tries to wink, she just blinks.
[00:37:52] Anthony: Maybe
[00:37:52] Dan: it’s a double wink. Uh, we should have her on. Sometimes she could show us.
[00:37:56] Anthony: Lindsey here that you’re coming on the show talking about real estate. It’s cute. I don’t know if it [00:38:00] was likes real estate, all that much to talk about it,
[00:38:02] Dan: but she tolerates it.
Well, I don’t tell that
[00:38:05] Anthony: would be a fun episode to bring our significant others on to do an episode about what it’s like to be the significant other of somebody who’s obsessed with real estate. Yeah. I mean, like what’s, what’s their experience on the other side of it. Yeah, it might be a really short episode.
We’ll talk to the ladies. All right. That’s it for us. We’re done. We’re out of here. We’ll see you in the next episode. Get on after it it’s many closing. So I
[00:38:30] Dan: forward .