Okay… we are going to apologize right off the bat. There is no $200,000 giveaway… at least if you’re not an investor. And even then, that’s their hard-earned money!
But, in today’s episode, we want to give a sort of state of the union on Invictus Capital. There have been big moves in this year alone, and we want to look back and dissect our growth.
From property management to operations, and marketing to investor relations, there have been a lot of changes and growth since the start of this company.
So… how did we start out from just a few properties to now over $50 million under management? How did we grow our company? How do we manage change?
Find out on this week’s episode of Multifamily Investing Made Simple.
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“What gets you here doesn’t always get you there. And some people who are great in their roles at one time, in one phase are not able to make the jump.” -Anthony Vicino
“When you’re a good investor, it’s a lot of sitting. We’ve been really active, but sometimes the best thing to do is nothing. ” – Dan Krueger
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[00:00:00] Anthony: Hey, what’s up listeners? Welcome to another episode of Multifamily Investing Made Simple. I’m just gonna say it now and put it out. There we are. I would sit in about a week. We’re gonna give away about $200,000 to I. Now you’re gonna wanna stick around for this entire episode raffle. I wasn’t aware of what the hell’s going on Exactly.
You’re gonna wanna stick around for this entire episode as we explain exactly what you have to do, if you wanna be part of that, uh, distribution in the fu in the future. Was that a good planting the lead? I think
[00:00:46] Dan: so. Okay. Yeah. Now we’re gonna spend about 45 minutes talking around, talking about other things.
[00:00:51] Anthony: Yes. So, and then we’ll get to that like, whoa, what about the 200,000, $200,000 thing? Like, just wait, just wait for it. Get there. Uh, as always, if you don’t know, I’m Anthony Pacino. This is Dan [00:01:00] Krieger. We’re Invictus Capital. Trying a new intro here. Um, .
[00:01:04] Dan: When’s the last time we said our names? Did we
[00:01:06] Anthony: always. We used to always say, Yeah, like the first 270 episodes.
And then at a certain point we’re kinda like, You guys know ? Yeah. Just take it for granted people, and if you’re listening to this, we assume you know us, but maybe that’s not a fair assumption. You know? Actually that isn’t a fair assumption. So today let’s rectify that. Let’s, we’re gonna talk about Invictus Capital a little bit as State of the Union.
We’re gonna talk about what we’ve been up to this year, who we are. If you guys don’t know, just give a little bit of, uh, what’s up. Yeah. Especially in the face of like economic crisis. Yeah. World’s ending. So, A lot of times we talk about like principles around multi-family investing. We talk about our personal journeys, we talk a little bit about Invictus, but we don’t really go like deep into it a lot of times.
[00:01:44] Dan: So we’re not big sharers, I guess. You know, we’re pretty, I know as far as like personal stuff, neither of us share a ton. No. We’re we talk, we like to talk about topics and educate a lot. But as far as like
[00:01:58] Anthony: sharing our feelings, no, there’s never be [00:02:00] no feelings here today. But, uh, but we’re gonna talk about how we’re giving away.
I’m using the term giving away $200,000. But if you can’t see on YouTube, like you should go watch on YouTube if you’re not to find the channel. Multifamily Investing made Simple air quotes. When I say giving away. Hmm. Air quotes. Um, but $200,000 is about right.
[00:02:17] Dan: Yeah. We are sending out $200,000.
[00:02:20] Anthony: That’s right.
That’s being sent out. So before we get to that, let’s, let’s talk about, um, what’s that thing that we do? Um, I mean, we do
[00:02:29] Dan: a lot of things. We give people horrible advice. We recommend books. That one sweet. Oh,
[00:02:34] Anthony: first one. Yeah, the first one. Okay. Bad investing advice. So we got, Do we have some of that today?
[00:02:38] Dan: Always, always. I’m ch full of bad
[00:02:40] Anthony: ideas even after almost 300 episode. Still going strong. It’s nothing but
[00:02:45] Dan: bad ideas up
[00:02:45] Anthony: here. It’s like a hydra. Yeah. It’s a bad investing advice. Hydra, you cut off one of his heads and three more pop up. Woo. Right. It’s like dead is the enemy. And then next thing you know is like, go big or go home and then like, uh, don’t invest in [00:03:00] the stock market and put everything in crypto.
Yeah. That’s all you’re, These are all
[00:03:05] Dan: wonderful ideas according to. Uh, air quotes for listeners. I wouldn’t actually know. Air quotes .
[00:03:12] Anthony: You gotta do the air quotes. Can’t just say it. I sure I can. That’s amazing.
[00:03:16] Dan: If I say it, they can hear it. Everyone’s got the audio. Everybody’s listening.
[00:03:21] Anthony: Boom. If you’re just watching us and reading subtitles, that’s weird.
Oh, subtitles probably aren’t even not accurate, are they? Uh, often? No. Usually it says, I’m Anthony Casino. Casino. Oh. Like I’m some kind of mobster in. 52 Las Vegas. I could do well because he knows a good movie. I could do well in a zoo suit. Did they wear zoo suits in the fifties? I, he knows more of a twenties thing.
I would, Yeah, but that makes sense for me. Think about my brand. I’m always like 30 years behind the trend. ,
[00:03:52] Dan: you do wear acid washed jeans, so hey, what’s wrong with that? Consistent, I think just about 30 years late.
[00:03:57] Anthony: All right,
[00:03:57] Dan: fair. Should we get into it? Let’s do it. Bad [00:04:00] investing tip of the week. . Um, if you want to invest in real estate, and this is a real estate specific one.
Oh, we’re switching cameras now. Fancy pushed button. Okay. All right. If you wanna get into investing in real estate, all you gotta do is find the deal and find the money and you’re home free. Um, taking this from, it was some sort of guru who I don’t think we’ve ever named, but you saw somebody. Should I name the guru?
[00:04:25] Anthony: Yeah. I’m curious. I don’t even know who it was, Is Brandon. Really is Brandon Turner? Is it Brandon? Oh, and when I say guru like I do, I love Brandon Turner. I think he’s a great guy. He’s very smart. I don’t call, I don’t think of him as a guru, but he is a guru. He’s, he’s
[00:04:36] Dan: a, a well respected, uh, member of the real estate community.
I like people know him, um, for sure. And he’s, he’s a great guy. He’s written some great books. Definitely check it out. Um,
[00:04:48] Anthony: one of my favorite books actually, on real estate investing was, How to manage real estate properties. Yeah. The management one, that was a really good one from a property management perspective that, what
[00:04:56] Dan: was it called?
How to manage something like that. Yeah, it it is a good one. [00:05:00] Um, but that kind of ties nicely into to what I’m gonna talk about. Oh, that’s true. That’s a good point. Um, the fact that, uh, and I made a post about this the other day, One of the most common mistakes I see new investors make who are trying to get into real estate is they oversimplify the process and they think they find the deal and they find the money, and, and that’s the work right there.
But really the operations is a. Big piece, probably the biggest piece of actually making that asset a successful cash flowing machine for you and your investors. And it’s not as simple as just, um, you know, hiring a, a property manager and saying, Okay, solve that operation problem right there. Uh, there’s a lot that goes into it, so do not oversimplify it.
Yes, you need to find a good deal. Yes, you do need to capitalize that deal, but where the majority of your attention needs to be going, whether you’re doing in-house management or you’re outsourcing, it is nailing those operat. Uh, because that is a full-time job for however long it owned the thing.
[00:05:54] Anthony: Yeah.
And it, what’s interesting about this piece of advice coming from Brandon, where you said focus [00:06:00] on the acquisitions and the capital raising and you’ll become a millionaire investor, is that it can be so easy to overlook operations. It’s like almost taken for granted. But we were just absorbing, like across from our office for the last six months, nine months, there’s been construction.
They’re building like a skyscraper there and we know nothing about skyscrapers and how to build them. So we’re watching the whole process of like them digging and putting concrete. It is pretty cool watching it actually.
[00:06:27] Dan: Yeah. It’s some the biggest Jack Hammer I’ve ever seen in my life. Yeah, it was like est stalls a building,
[00:06:31] Anthony: dude.
It’s, it’s crazy what goes into it, but as we’re watching it, we’re like, if you think about, okay, if we had been just gone and acquired the plot of land and then we had funded it, we brought some investors into this. Had a really great looking model, everything underwritten, and we wouldn’t have had the first clue of how to actually go and build it.
The operation side of things. Like it’s so complex just sitting there and watching it and so like, it’s not something you can just hire out and, and that’s a really, um, extreme [00:07:00] example with development, but it’s the same with like operating a multi-family asset. It’s not something that you can just hand over to the property management team and say, Good luck, God speed.
[00:07:09] Dan: I tried on my first deal and it was not a big skyscraper construction project, it was just a six unit. Mm-hmm. , and I was like, Oh, I’ll just hire property manage management company and it’ll be passive air quotes there. Um, No, it’s, I mean, once you get big and you get scale and you’ve got a good relationship with a really big, uh, property management company, yeah, it could be, it could make sense.
And if you’re, there’s an argument to be made if you’re doing turnkey properties where there’s no real work that needs to be done, Like you can, you can make it happen. It could make it work. You’re not gonna, uh, make a ton of money. Uh, they’re gonna eat a lot of the profits. But if you’re doing value, Uh, commercial real estate like we’re doing, then it’s, you gotta have your finger on the
[00:07:50] Anthony: pulse slip.
Yeah. I think this is actually a really interesting segue into the topic of today’s episode, which is just kind of doing a, a state of the Invictus mult, uh, Invictus Capitals [00:08:00] Union. Like, and, and for those that don’t know, like Dan, you did the third party management from D like on your first property lasted about six months or so, and then you’re like, Screw this.
Take in house. Um, and that’s, that’s our mo and his house was me. That was you. At the time, there was no employees. Just these days, these days, things have changed. We’ve grown a bit. We have at any given moment, , I don’t know what the count is. We’re we’re somewhere around 400 to 500 units depending on when you’re listening to this and closings.
Like, we have a bunch of closings happening this year. We’re in the middle of.
[00:08:31] Dan: A lot of transactions. Lot of transactions.
[00:08:33] Anthony: Yeah. A lot of them. It’s a moving target. It’s a good thing. But um, now the team is very different. Right. And so we built in-house property management. We have a team. It was, let’s talk about the different phases and iterations of it.
So in the beginning it was you, in the beginning it was me, and then you bought your first hire. And that was for like the first 60 ish units or so you, you had like one
[00:08:54] Dan: guy, right? Okay, So here’s what. I got the first six unit, tried the third party thing for [00:09:00] six months, like Anthony said. Cut that off. Uh, took that six unit up to the point of refi, which was about nine months in.
So I did it myself for a few months there. Got it to the point of refi. Got some capital for the next property, which was an eight unit down the street. And that one came with a very active caretaker named Jerry. Uh, Jerry’s a great guy. Shout out Jerry. Yeah. Um. Jerry was, uh, a godsend at the time. Uh, and these properties were only a couple blocks apart.
So I effectively started to use Jerry as my property manager to handle leasing and the showings and pretty much do all the things property manager would do. Um, that lasted for six, seven months or so. I got a 15 unit down the street. Jerry was still helping me out, but Jerry was a little ill, uh, he was an older gentleman.
He, he lived an active life, I would say. He did some drinking and some smoking in his days, and unfortunately that caught up with him and he ended up passing, [00:10:00] and it was right after that that I had to go out and, uh, make a, a hire for the first full-time property manager, which was a dumpster fire. Um, her name was basically my name.
Interesting story. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it was, All right. I’m called out. She’s, she doesn’t listen to this. Her name was Danielle Kru. No way. Really? No way. . Not kidding. I never knew this. It lasted about two months. That’s amazing. Lasted about two months. Absolutely horrible. Interesting. Um, yeah, that was a dumpster fire.
And then it was after that I made the next, uh, full-time hire, which was the individual that took us through the next, uh, let’s see, this would 15, probably about a year or so.
[00:10:43] Anthony: Yeah, a year. Yeah. I would say to about 150 units and, yeah. Ish. And then, Phased him out. Yeah. Um, he was great for where we were at that time, but then, What gets you here doesn’t always get you there.
And some people who are great in their roles at one [00:11:00] time, in one phase are not able to make the jump. And we were making the jump to a much more systematized process cuz we recognize we needed to bring on a lot more heads. And the only way to do that is through systems and processes. And this guy was really great when he was the lone Ranger, not so great as we were implementing other people.
Mm-hmm. . And
[00:11:17] Dan: so it just culturally there was a misalignment there, which is fine. He’s gonna do really great, uh, with, uh, you know, managing properties for somebody who’s not growing and doubling every year like we’ve effectively been doing. Um, but yeah.
[00:11:30] Anthony: And so since then the team has changed pretty drastically.
So now, um, What are we at? Like seven or eight, full nine, nine heads between leasing, property management, maintenance. And one of the cool things that’s happened this year actually is like we, we’ve had the, a transaction that we’re not gonna talk too much about on the air here, um, secret for a while later until we close it all up.
But, um, part of the transaction was not just acquiring this guy’s buildings, but also bringing in house his property management [00:12:00] team. Mm-hmm. . So as we’re getting his buildings, we also have been integrating his team over the last couple of months with our own. Which has been really cool because as we acquire his buildings, we’re getting his team who’s already very familiar with the buildings, very experienced.
Um, but getting the teams to mesh is always a scary thing in a merger and acquisition. It’s like, Oh, how are the cultures gonna come together? And so, you know, this is just something that you have to think about as you’re like growing the type of company that we grow, which is, it’s not just the buildings, it’s not just the investors, it’s also.
The, the rock stars on the ground running the team, That’s the most
[00:12:33] Dan: important part. Yeah. I mean, there’s no, no other way to make these, these assets perform without the people that are, um, boots on the ground making it happen. And most importantly, knowing how to deal with certain things and make key decisions and having.
The experience and the, um, the wherewithal to do it because it is not an easy job. Yeah, it is, uh, oftentimes a very thankless job. Property management, especially in the c and b minus class space. Uh, you deal with a lot of stuff and you’ve gotta have amazing work [00:13:00] ethic. And, uh, right now everybody on our team has that.
Yeah. And yeah, we got
[00:13:04] Anthony: a rockstar team right now. Yeah. And,
[00:13:05] Dan: and this has always been the struggle ever since I’ve started because, you know, it’s always been tough to find people specifically on the maintenance side of things. That’s always been, uh, really tough to find, uh, you know, good quality people. But, um, you know, for the past, you know, ever since 2020, just the, the, the labor side of things across the board, across pretty.
Every aspect, whether it’s white collar, blue collar, like it’s been really, really, really tough to find really great people. Yeah. For several years now. For years. And so just being able to, um, um, have these great people join our team all at once has been a godsend. Yeah.
[00:13:42] Anthony: We’ve been, we experienced the same thing at Escape on the manufacturing side, which is like, The, the people who are really good at their, with their hands.
And I think a lot of this stemmed from like the, the fallout in 2006 to 2008 where, you know, a lot of companies went under people who were working suddenly like contractors and like handyman and, and these [00:14:00] construction industries, like they all of a sudden were out of jobs and cuz there was nothing happening on the macro scale.
So these people went off and started their own little side hustles their own little businesses, which is awesome. and then they realized I could do way more, I can make more money. I’m in control of my schedule. And so they just never really came back into the, the workforce. And we definitely were experiencing that where it’s like, how do we get these people to come and work for us?
Like they’re all, they all wanna be subcontractors and, and vendors. So, yeah, tricky.
[00:14:26] Dan: And unfortunately, I think there’s just been a long time in our country kind of a, um, And unfortunate, like, I don’t wanna say maybe stigma, but it’s always been perceived as I, I remember when I was in high school and then transitioning to college, like if I had said I was going to go to a tech school as opposed to a university, that would’ve been perceived as like, less, less a
[00:14:47] Anthony: hundred percent.
So there’s, and that’s so stupid, right? It’s stupid.
[00:14:49] Dan: And now it’s like, you know, everyone like, would, would poo poo uh, manual labor thinking it was, um,
[00:14:55] Anthony: you know, dude, you, you could make a six figure. Coming out of like HVAC [00:15:00] school or plumber school or electrician school, like good luck. Like you went to, you went to school for finance, like your starting job coming outta that.
You were not making six figures, right? No. Like there’s, there’s nothing wrong with like working with your hands and doing those jobs. Cause it pays, it can pay really, really well.
[00:15:15] Dan: And I probably about four times the amount of debt that I would’ve had if I had gone to a, a two year tech. So I would’ve started, uh, I started later with more debt and made probably about the same or even less than I could have made doing.
Another craft of some kind. A hundred percent.
[00:15:29] Anthony: So, so that’s, that’s the kind of the journey that we’ve been on on the property management side. Um, it’s been crazy ride too cuz since we joined forces, like we were doing our own thing before and, and growing, I would say actually growing really well. But then since we’ve been together, like Invictus is doubled every single year, effectively, pretty much a little bit over doubled in a lot of cases.
So yeah, pretty much it’s
[00:15:52] Dan: been, um, It’s been fast. Yeah, it’s been fast. Which means it’s,
[00:15:57] Anthony: Yeah. I mean the first, the first year together [00:16:00] we did, we had, uh, just Invictus, not counting personal holdings. We probably had maybe 5 million of assets under management. Thinking about grinding Goodrich and Duluth.
It’s about five or six Now we’re at the end of this year, we’re gonna be pushing 70. It’s probably more like six six, either way. 10 x in three, in about three years. So at the end of this year, we’ll be at about 70 million, uh, about 500 units under management. Awesome team and awesome investors. And I wanna talk about that side of things too, because a lot of times, um, maybe there’s not a lot of transparency on this side of things, so people maybe don’t even understand like, how many investors do we have in, like, are are stable?
Like what’s this look like? Do we have like a fleet, an army of investors? And the answer is yes. Yes. We have thousands of, No, no, we have about 130 hundred bushel, 40 active investors in our pool that we’ve raised about 25 million of equity from over the last couple of years. [00:17:00] Yeah. Could do it without you guys.
Yeah. We love you guys. Like, um, so that’s been really cool. But it’s not as many as like you might think, like I think a lot of people think, Oh, they probably have like tens of thousands of investors think, no, I
[00:17:11] Dan: don’t know what the perception is. Honestly, I’ve never really asked people what they like. I’ve had some.
Occasionally, you know, like, uh, you know, my wife might ask, or like a family member like might ask and I’ll answer, but I’ve never actually asked like what people assume. Mm.
[00:17:26] Anthony: That’s a good question. Yeah, I guess I haven’t either. I guess I, I kind of assume it, looking at, from the outside is like, Oh, I wonder what they have.
But one of the coolest things about our investor base is that the vast, vast majority, I, I did the math on this like six months ago, is that like 78% of. Are repeat investors. Mm-hmm. . So they, they don’t just do one deal and then they’re out. They do like multiple deals and that’s really awesome. It’s like, it’s cool to see not just the vote confidence once but doing it multiple times.
Yeah. Um, the one plug, cuz we never make plugs on this podcast except for our book, but, uh, if you’re ever interested in investing with Invictus, [00:18:00] let us know us reach out because, uh, we’d love to, we’d love to chat and see if, you know, we can serve you. Um, Just full disclosure though, like we have a very particular investment thesis and very particular investor type that we look for.
So we do like one thing. Yeah, we’re boring, so it might not be a good fit. You
[00:18:15] Dan: want that thing? We’re like a really good burger joint. You’re not getting pizza, but you’re gonna get a really good burger. Burger. Yeah. So,
[00:18:22] Anthony: So that $200,000 that we were given away, air quotes, two investors right now in the raffle.
Uh, what is that? Let’s walk through that raffle. The quarterly raffle. Yeah. And
[00:18:32] Dan: then we just mail out, uh, envelopes of cash.
[00:18:36] Anthony: Um, we draw one name out of our investor pool and we send them all of the cash flow distributions from that quarter for the entire investor pool. They, they all goes to one investor, so it’s.
Yeah. Win big, lose big. This is all false.
[00:18:48] Dan: This is not how it works. Not accurate at all. . But yeah, this is our biggest quarter ever. Um, we’ve never sent out, um, north of 200 before. I think we’ll be, um, just, just a [00:19:00] hair over 200 k I think. Yeah. Q4 is gonna be big and then, Can’t go to details, but Q1 of next year, really massive, uh, something else is gonna start paying out which we, we can’t disclose.
And, uh, numbers are gonna be even bigger.
[00:19:13] Anthony: Bigger. So one, one of the cool things I was just thinking, So this quarter we’re sending, not giving away, these are cash flow distributions that are investors have earned. Uh, so sending about 200,000 this quarter. And one of the things that’s really cool is if you do the math this year, We’ll have almost sent back a million dollars to our investors, which is like a really cool hurdle to hit.
Mm-hmm. . And then we have a refinance coming up that we’re in the middle of and executing. Yeah. Factor that in. Like that’s not a, that’s not a return on capital as a return of capital. And that’s the beautiful thing about a refinance. Yeah. And that’s makes it tax free, but that’s probably gonna return a half million right there.
So at the end of this year, all total a million, we’re gonna be well over a million returned to investors. Mm-hmm. , I [00:20:00] think that’s, . It’s one of the things that gets me most jazzed. Yeah. About what we do . Like it’s super cool. I
[00:20:05] Dan: love it. And, and those people that, uh, are new to this, when they get that first distribution, I think it’s, it’s really cool to see their reaction because most people are like, Oh wow, that, that’s just gonna keep happening every quarter.
Cause most people are coming into this like from investing in stocks. Like they might have like some dividend paying stocks, but they don’t really see it. There’s like a little tiny bit that kind of shows up in their brokerage account. Having like an, like an actual ACH just land in your account every quarter and you didn’t have to go out and work for it.
That’s for a lot of people that are new to this. That’s a totally new thing. And it can
[00:20:35] Anthony: be a sizable number in a lot of cases because the minimum investment on these deals is pretty big, right? So if you’re putting $50,000 or a hundred thousand dollars into a deal, or if you’re quarterly distributions, like, you know, an annualized 8% cash on cash return, you might be getting a couple thousand dollars in your bank account.
You notice that you go, Oh, neat. That’s pretty cool.
[00:20:52] Dan: Yeah. And then, and it scales nicely. We’ve done, uh, at least one podcast episode where we kind of, uh, do a little bit of a deep dive [00:21:00] on, I think we’ve done a podcast episode with the visual
[00:21:02] Anthony: of the Yeah. The Financial Freedom Calculator. Yeah. Yeah. If you Google that on YouTube, you can find that video.
[00:21:07] Dan: Yeah, it’s, it’s tough for people who are newer to this to really kind of wrap their heads around, okay, how does this scale? Like what does this look like? Like I get, I put 50 K into this deal. I’m gonna get X amount per quarter in the first year. Okay. But like, let’s fast forward like 10 years and say, Let’s just say I do a deal year.
What does that look like? We unpack that in that up, so we should probably link that below so people can actually wrap their heads around how scalable this is. Especially if you take those refi proceeds and put ’em into another deal and just keep. Yeah, investing,
[00:21:34] Anthony: it’s, it would be worth probably just doing that video and can, honestly, it’s, I’d like to,
[00:21:37] Dan: cuz I think we could do it better, and I’ve tweaked that model a little bit since we did it the first time.
[00:21:41] Anthony: Yeah. Um, it, it’s always mind blowing when you see the numbers actually in action. You go, Whoa, this, this starts to snowball pretty quickly. So
[00:21:49] Dan: yeah. I mean, you’re one, no one’s like freaking out like, Oh my God, I’m rich. It’s like, There’s money and then year two it’s like, oh, and then by like year five you’re like, Oh damn, this is actually, um, well, well let’s think
[00:21:58] Anthony: about this.
Let’s, let’s kind of talk [00:22:00] about it. So the deal that we’re refinancing right now is Duluth. We closed on this in January of 2020, right before Covid and the world ended, so not a great time. Um, but that refinance will probably return probably somewhere between 40 and 60% of investor capital, right? So if you had put in just for easy math, a hundred thousand dollars into that deal back in January, 2020, you’d earn cash on cash returns.
Throughout the entirety of the hold. We’ve never missed a quarter of payouts on that. That’s not gonna be a life changing sum of money generally. But you’re gonna have earned a pretty good return on your, on your money there first, and then you’re gonna get this refinance of about $50,000 back. Now, you’re still gonna be in the future getting your cash on cash return now you’re still gonna be getting that cash flow, but now you have this, this check for $50,000 that you can go and reinvest in something else, and now that 50 is earning for you.
[00:22:50] Dan: Don’t have to pay the tax. Man, it’s crazy. That’s, that’s, that’s the best part. Crazy. Yeah. Um, Cause it’s
[00:22:55] Anthony: your capital, it’s just being returned
[00:22:56] Dan: to you. Yeah. If you, if you did the math on what it would look like if [00:23:00] there were a tax hit, because normally if you invest in anything and then sell it and then take the profits and reinvest, there’s gonna be a tax bill.
Maybe you don’t have to pay it. Like when that thing is sold at the end of the year, you better believe there’s a bill coming come. And if you look at how that, uh, compounds over. Where if there’s a tax hit versus not a tax hit on the same investment over like 30 years, it’s, it’s mind blowing the difference.
I mean, there’s a, there’s probably a common in there that’s not in the other one. Yep. So it’s, it’s a
[00:23:29] Anthony: huge difference. It’s what the, what do they say? It’s not about what you make, it’s about what you keep. Yeah. Right. And so you keep what you have lurk for you long ass, a tax benefit. So, All that’s to say this is a really long pitch, but if you’re listening to the fir the first time and you’ve never thought about multi-family or just commercial real estate investing and like why people love it so much, like just some of the things that we hit on here are the reasons.
Like, and it’s, it’s one thing to talk about it in theory, but in the moment for us right now is we’re about to like hit send and send that money to investors. It’s like, oh, it’s [00:24:00] real. It’s real right now. And it’s just, I wanna share that with you guys, cuz. It’s neat. It is. It feels good. Mm-hmm. so didn’t, I said we wouldn’t talk about feelings, but there we are.
It’s neat. out. Swell. Not swell. What, what else, What else in terms of Invictus, State of the Union you think is, is worth hitting on? It’s been crazy. I mean, the podcast, we got the book been, been a lot busy. You know, we’re, we’re
[00:24:27] Dan: kind of gearing up for a. You know, kind of a breather here. Yeah. Into the end of the year, which I’m personally kinda looking forward to.
And uh, you know, I think we’re gonna be spending a lot more time on, um, content production, getting out there, going to events. Um, cuz there’s probably gonna be a good. couple of months here at least where deals are gonna be a little bit tougher to pencil with, with what rates are doing. So yeah, I’m excited to kind of, um, you know, we we’re going in the end of the year just with, you know, occupancy, looking great, you know, we’re just gonna be really caught up going into the winter and we get to kind of, um, [00:25:00] instead of focusing on the, the acquisitions and, and the capital raises, um, kind of turnover and look at, at.
Some of the other aspects of the business, like, like marketing and getting
[00:25:09] Anthony: out to, for, for the listeners that don’t have like a context for this, we’ve been pretty much closing one transaction after another since January of this year. We had, we closed in like the first quarter of the year, so we were in the midst of that transaction, and then we had maybe two months of quiet, and then from June till now, It’s been like that for the
[00:25:30] Dan: last two years though, right?
It feels like it. 2020 was, was a weird one. We did one in January and then one in November, and then 2021 was boom, boom, boom. Oh, that’s a good point. Deals. And then 2022 thus far has been boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So it’s been just kind of like this marathon of like, okay, we’ve got this deal closed, and then the next one is like right there, which is, which is great.
[00:25:52] Anthony: Yeah, we’re, that’s a lot. We’ve been talking internally is that once we get done with these transactions for the rest of the, the year, November, December, cause we’ll be wrapped up with that, everything by then, [00:26:00] just kind of pump the brakes and chill for a little bit. And it coincides nicely with what’s happening in the macro market in terms of like interest rates, inflation, all are craziness that’s happening in the world.
I think it’s a good time to sit and watch, observe, make sure that you stack some cash in the corner ready to pounce on opportunities because I have a feeling that there’s gonna be a lot of opportunities in the next year. Um, and then we’re gonna be right back on the grind of like finding that next deal and closing it.
[00:26:28] Dan: We’ve set it a bunch on this podcast. Um, you know, part of doing, when you’re a good investor, it’s a lot of city and. I mean, we’ve been really active, but sometimes the best thing to do is nothing. And, uh, we don’t just say that because it sounds good. Like that’s why, how do we do nothing? We’ve been having a lot of really great transactions kind of land in our lap because we’ve got these really great relationships in our area.
But with that said, we’re on time [00:27:00] where it definitely makes sense to you. Go a little slower and think really hard. Does this really make sense? Because it’s, it’s a much different
[00:27:08] Anthony: environment. One of the really interesting things is like you mentioned it in 2020, we did a deal in January and then our second deal in November, so there’s a 10 month gap there where we made a conscious effort just to kind of, we didn’t.
Stop doing everything. We started this podcast, but we started laying seeds. And those seeds are the things that have, have been paying fruition for us ever since because of that 10 month period where we said, Okay, we’re sitting on our hands. We’re not really, we’re not jumping into deals that don’t make sense.
And we just started planting seeds with relationships and, and like the, the podcast writing the book, all that stuff. And so sometimes you just have to, it’s not that you stop and do nothing. . It’s just that, you know, you sit and you observe, you wait and
[00:27:48] Dan: yeah. You work in a different part of the business.
Yeah. Keep your eyes on the market and when you see something that’s just, you know, asymmetric, like it needs to be like, you know, you gotta, you gotta recognize that the, the risk profile is changed a [00:28:00] little bit. I don’t think there’s a big downside risk necessarily right now, in 2020. There, like the, the downside did expand because we didn’t know, okay, what, we didn’t know what happen was gonna happen.
Uh, turned out that, you know, that it was a relatively short period of time where that was the case, but we could have gone and closed some deals, which is fine, but could have. But now it’s like, you know, it’s just, it’s tough when the cost of money doubles
[00:28:22] Anthony: to make the same deals work. What it is is that everybody anticipated 2020, the fallout to happen much quicker.
Right? Yeah. It’s just now that we’re realizing the fallout, it took a couple years of. Keeping that, putting bandaids and like keeping the, the, the zombie like limping along, but now that like the roos, like the roosters finally come home, Is that the thing that they say? But all that to say is that now we’re seeing the ramifications of all the things that happens in 2020.
And in 2020, I think everybody kind of anticipated this is probably gonna fall out sooner.
[00:28:56] Dan: Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it’s tough because I, I think it actually [00:29:00] started, uh, well before , like around 2000. And it’s been happening. Mm-hmm. . And then it’s like we were sipping on a bottle of vodka since 2008 and then in 2020 we just pounded it.
Yeah. And now the hangovers starting.
[00:29:13] Anthony: Yeah. I think that’s what we, Well we thought, we thought 2020 as we pounded the vodka that we were gonna, that was the moment we’re gonna surely dive of od od . But we, we woke up. In the morning, it’s like, not dead, but I wish I was still have to do it. . It’s okay. People, um, we’re, we’re still pretty bullish on the world at large.
We don’t think it’s gonna end yet.
[00:29:34] Dan: Yeah. And honestly, um, yeah, rates are rising and, um, you know, that, that does make it tougher for deals to pencil. But what that also means, we’ve got a bunch of really great assets. The apartment space is actually gonna do really well because of this. Cuz there’s unfortunately a lot of people that are gonna get priced out of buy home too.
They already are. And so the rental market’s gonna be amazing. So even if the, the deals aren’t gonna pencil great for the next [00:30:00] however many months, the stuff we’ve got is gonna perform really
[00:30:03] Anthony: well. Yeah cuz like we would just look at, because of interest rates, the what you could afford to have bought in January.
Of the house. You know, maybe you could have bought like a $600,000 house now you, maybe you could only get like a $400,000 house. So the people who are maybe were looking around at the market are like, ah, I’m, I’m not, I don’t wanna buy less than what I could have gotten six, seven months ago. So I just rent until this fixes itself.
Right. Good. Good problem to have for apartment owners. So yeah.
[00:30:30] Dan: Yeah. Multi. And this, this is kind of what happened in 2008 too. You know, a lot of people think that, Oh, that was such a crazy real estate crash. It’s like, Yeah. For single family. But if you owned an apartment and you didn’t have some weird short term variable debt on your properties, um, you know, the, the rental market had better.
Mm-hmm. , they could see almost was nonexistent.
[00:30:49] Anthony: So, Yep. So that’s the state of the Union of Invictus. This episode is kind of random, kind of weird. Try to beat you in with that $200,000 of giveaway. But [00:31:00] this occurred to me like before we started recording, like we haven’t really talked much, I think, in depth about what we’re up to and what it looks like.
So hopefully this brought, you got some value brought, brought you a little bit closer, So appreciate you. Um, the book that we deep dove last week is the best ever apartment syndication book by Joe Far. And so if you’re interested in doing what we. As an active operator, syndicated everything that we’re talking about here about like raising capital from investors, acquiring deals, building a property management company, all that stuff.
Um, that book would be really good to check out. I think it’s a really good playbook, but if you are not interested in doing exactly what we do, if you wanna be a passive investor, awesome. If you wanna do duplexes or Airbnbs, that book is not gonna be helpful. So it’s a very niche market, but it’s a very good.
[00:31:51] Dan: Yeah, definitely for the active guys. If you’re a passive investor, trying to wrap your head around it. I mean, you might get, uh, there’s some parts in there that, that could be, uh, insightful for [00:32:00] just trying to understand how the, how the things are structured. But, uh, the book back here is what, what you wanna be looking at if you’re passive investing mid simple.
Yeah. If you wanna be a passive investor, check this one out. If you wanna do it. We do. Check out Joe’s book also, Can Mac Roy’s book is a good one for detective guys who wanna get I like them. I like both those for some reason because they, they kind of hit on like every. They don’t go super deep, but they just, enough, they touch each, each aspect, so you know all the things that you should be diving into deeper.
[00:32:27] Anthony: So if you don’t know every Wednesday we release a book, Deep Dive episode, um, and corresponding with that episode, cuz our goal is to try and save you time so you don’t have to read the book. It’s um, we know books take a long time to get through, so we do it for you. Books. Books are hard. They’re so hard.
So we break it down for you. And then a companion resource that we create for you is something we called the sophisticated Investor notes, which is a one page. Uh, top 10 takeaways, infographic that we create and it’s completely free. You can download [00:33:00] firstname.lastname@example.org slash notes. There’s about 25 investor notes in there at, at this point.
So we’ve, we’ve deep dove 25 books. Go check ’em out. Um, totally free. Don’t, you don’t even have to give us your email address. It’s, we’re bad marketers. You just go get it, um, because we want it to be available.
[00:33:20] Dan: So we’re giving away notes. Giving away money. How are we in business? How is this a
[00:33:26] Anthony: viable business model?
I get by on the, the, the charity of the state. Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I’m much, I’m a, um, uh, on welfare , but, uh, hopefully this episode brought you guys some value. If it did, do me a favor, this. This is how we, this is how we stay in business is, uh, I ask for re reviews and referrals. So if you know anybody that you think would get some value out of listening to this podcast, do me a solid and throw a iPod Mini or Nano or whatever they’re called [00:34:00] with fully loaded with all of the multi-family investing made simple episodes already on it.
This is what 20 bucks could get an I. And put it on there and then throw it at your friend and say, Listen to all of that. . Do people still sell? I okay if you buy those still? I do not, do not know. I do not know the answer to this, but, um, it truthfully, that has to be one of the more complex asks a host has ever had for their listeners.
Right? Okay. Usually they’re like, Just go leave a review, go
[00:34:29] Dan: to an Apple store. And these days I think you have to make a frigging appointment. So make an appointment at the Apple store. Buy a nano, take it outta the box. , you’re gonna have to download
[00:34:38] Anthony: iTunes, all these things. You have to download iTunes and then you have to load it up from there.
I’m asking a lot here, or you just go leave a review. Your choice. I’d go with, Yeah, I’d go with the ladder.
[00:34:50] Dan: Just pick your poison. That’s a
[00:34:52] Anthony: lot of work. I know, I know. But hey guys, we appreciate you being here. Um, that’s all I got. La Vista. [00:35:00]
[00:35:00] Dan: Sure. Yeah. C.